Now the true is told ?

[Mark Webber]

Procar said in AA that entry to
the 24hr race is for production car's and specified class only and the car like the GT40 reaplic's which have over 500 register cars are [I]NOT allowed HELLO! we have a non production car in the manro how does this make any logic. what is your through's?
IMHO Ithink it is a outrage . Ihave worked as a team member with a team in class E (at the time ) (the only team factory backed ) and I found PROCAR the pig headed group I've ever seen with very high level's of double standeads
IMHO this is just another example

( sorry for the spelling)

[Morris 1100]

When the RX 7 first won the twelve hour at Bathurst it did not meet the rule as to the number of cars sold in AUS.
It has happened before and will happen again!

The idiots at CAMS that earn a lot of money to control the sport have a lot to answer for!

[RaceTime]

Did you ever try and buy an XA GT to the same specs as the race car? (Funny how Ford wouldn't allow the road cars to be sold with the same rear disc assemblies from the Landau isn't it?)

[alfasud]

What were the exact words used in AutoAction where Procar says it's a "Production Car Race"? Many times in the Procar forums, Ross P has stated "Nations Cup is not about production car racing":
http://www.procar.com.au/forum/topic...up&whichpage=2

It's interesting to look at the Nations Cup technical regulations for 2003 and compare then against those of 2002. In 2002 the regulations were full of references to "production cars", while for 2003, the rules talk about the "Vehical Recognition Document", which basically means, if you've got enough clout, you can put anything in the "Vehical Recognition Document" that you want, and Procar will rubber stamp it.

So Nations Cup gets the 427 Monaro, but when it was asked if a Ferrari team could race a 550 Maranello, my understanding is that the team in quesion was told no. GM's Monaro delivers the V8 crowd to the races, thereby increasing gate sales, thereby improving Procar balance sheet, and so the Monaro gets special allowances.

Now it's Procar's race series, so they can invite anyone they like - it's just that nobody should think of it a motorsport. Motor-business yes, Motor-tainment yes, but Motorsport... No.

Think of it as a motorised version of WWF (and I don't mean world wildlife fund), and just like professional wrestling there are the heros and villians, the crowd favourites and the ones they love to hate. All good fun and as long as you don't mistake it for sport, there's no harm done.

I used to care about Nation's Cup and Bathurst 24 hours, but these days.... "No" it shouldn't race, but I'm not sure I care about Nations Cup anymore so maybe "don't care" is the best answer.

[alfasud]

By the way, before someone complains about the 427 Monaro being a "big block", that is one area where the record should be put straight. We've just had a similar discussion in the Ten-Tenths Sports Car forum.... it's a Chevrolet Gen III small block, with siamesed liners, as used by the C5-R Corvette in ALMS GTS racing, so the engine is at least related to the one in the production car - at least more so than the BMW M3 GTR V8.

http://www.c5rmotorsports.com/engine.htm
http://www.itfl.co.uk/racetech/issue31/Profilecorv.htm

[GTRMagic]

Ban them all, let a BMW SuperTourer win... MWUAAAAHHHHAAAHHHHAAAA

[Mattracer]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
Ban them all, let a BMW SuperTourer win... MWUAAAAHHHHAAAHHHHAAAA

Or a Hyundai.

[gttouring]

well the problem is now compounded- not only are there 500 or more replica GT40's registered and rolling about and NOT allowed to race, the ACO approved a COBRA like old style, for the 2004 24 hours of lemans! and sure ther are thousands of cobras in the world, but it is in GT, and It seems like it is running as a new (?) model
so the Monaro with the Pontiac version being in full swing production should be allowed to race, bored small block to 427 and all?
and how long do you supposed V8 supercars is going to take to make the championship two doors? so a Falcon Coupe and a Monaro?

[rocket]

it just like anything to do with holden the organisers bend over & touch their toes to please holden & dont give a sh*t about anyone else

[racer69]

Do we really need another Monaro thread.......it is here to stay....

[Mattracer]

Look how many more come to the Procar rounds when the Brock X-factor is implemented, not to mention the merchandise that goes flying out the door.

[AussieV8]

Morris 1100 if I recall Vincent Tesoriero gave all manufactures a enter cars they would like to list in the event.So the problem with the Mazda RX7 wasn't the fact of sales it was the release date that coincided with the event. But thats old news and the Porsches are still whingeing.

With the Monaro I have to agree with racer69 its here to stay so give it a break. The crowds showed at Wakefield that its a crowd puller and as it's flying the Aussie flag against the greats from OS.

[Conrod Kieron]

Originally posted by alfasud
By the way, before someone complains about the 427 Monaro being a "big block", that is one area where the record should be put straight. We've just had a similar discussion in the Ten-Tenths Sports Car forum.... it's a Chevrolet Gen III small block, with siamesed liners, as used by the C5-R Corvette in ALMS GTS racing, so the engine is at least related to the one in the production car - at least more so than the BMW M3 GTR V8.

http://www.c5rmotorsports.com/engine.htm
http://www.itfl.co.uk/racetech/issue31/Profilecorv.htm

Or more specifically, go the the place that makes them -

http://katech-inc.com/

Its a purpose built race engine, you will see from the spec its not the same block, it has a min bore of 4.12" vs GenIII blocks 3.9".
The term big block was coined to describe engines above the 350ci mark in the 60's, the big 3 all happend to change to a different block above this capacity (yes, there are oddities like the 400M etc)

[coln72]

Isn't the difference between a big block and a small block the bore spacings not the bore size.

400ci chev small block
396ci chev big block

Close to the same capacity but they have different spacing between the bore centre lines

[alfasud]

Originally posted by Conrod Kieron
Or more specifically, go the the place that makes them -

http://katech-inc.com/

Its a purpose built race engine, you will see from the spec its not the same block, it has a min bore of 4.12" vs GenIII blocks 3.9".
The term big block was coined to describe engines above the 350ci mark in the 60's, the big 3 all happend to change to a different block above this capacity (yes, there are oddities like the 400M etc)

Thanks for the link - I think this page shows it best:

http://katech-inc.com/prod/ls1/7L_cylcase.htm

Interestingly, the page does call it a GM part. However, I didn't mean to imply it was simply a bored out 350, but in terms of bore spacing (4.40") and deck height, it's a small block.

If 350ci is the limit, there are certainly a lot of oddities, like the 400 you mention, 351 Fords, not to mention just about every current NASCAR engine which is 358ci. Does anyone remember the PDL Mustang (and others?) that ran in NZ Sports Sedans, wasn't that a 366ci (6.0L)?

[Conrod Kieron]

IIRC Katech developed the 427 for GM initially and it is now a GM product, Ford do something similar with the SVO heads which are of Cleveland design, but further developed by Yates and sold as Ford.
Importantly, the heads on the 427 are of the same size as the GenIII so if the SB/BB name tag is applied moderen engines, it could be considered either way, ie its a big block in the first place and sleeved down or visa versa

The PDL Mustang may have been running a stroked Windsor or Cleveland, I have heard of 351 Windsors take out to the 400ci mark for instance.

My mistake Alfa, I should have said circa 350, Chrysler also had a 360 which was a small block and irrc there was a small block Chev at 400ci. Its not a hard and fast rule as you can see and really is only applied to big 3 factory produced engines