Ferrari's for Sauber and Prost: how many engines?

[Gerard]

Next year Ferrari is going to provide both teams of Sauber and Prost with 'last years engines.'
What I'd like to know is how many of those engines are there? 10, 30, 50, 100?
How many engines does Ferrari use in one season?
If they are going to provide two teams with 'last years engines' wouldn't they have to divide the number of engines between said two teams?
Does this mean Ferrari are now in possesion of double the amount of engines they actually need this year?

[Crash Test]

Do you think they will be using second hand engines?

Maybe they will be building more engines, but just not with the 2001 developments and go-fast bits.

[Gerard]

I understand next year Prost and Sauber are going to use the engines Ferrari uses this year.
That's why I asked, are there enough engines to provide both teams?
Or are Ferrari especially going to build those engines, although not with the latest developments?

[Red]

I read news in January or December last year and basically said that there are two different departments at Maranello, one to built 049 units while the other 048 for Sauber. The figures were at about 100-150 units each (or alltogether?:confused: 100 engines for Sauber seems a little exagerated). Second-hand okay, but not pre-owned!

[Valve Bounce]

Ferrari must do a heckofalot more testing and use more qualifying engines than penny pinching teams like Sauber and Prost. All they have to do is to get rid of all those pre-loved engines to the department that does the "servicing of old engines for poor customers". I am sure these engines next year will probably be down on power from what they are developing now. That is the sad reality of red second hand customer engines.

[Red]

Geesh, I don't understand your anger. Ferrari has some merchandise for sale, a price, and both Alain Prost and Peter Sauber liked the stuff and agreed to pay. They probably found this a good business, otherwise I think they wouldn't be happy to get money out of their pockets. And I consider they know better than I do. Furthermore, I'm quite sure Ferrari will not invest in a new "design" department, their goal being to reduce power or other parameters for the actual 049. Why should they?

[Red]

Oh, I almost forgot. They cant do more testing. You know, those evil FIA wouldn't like it. They use every second of allowed time, they even installed lights at Fiorano track and run after sunset sometimes. (Heheeee, and "sprinklers"!)

[Marshal]

For a start, I'd have thought that they will be selling new engines to last years design.

And as Ferrari have already done the design work, and made the casting tooling, written the nc code for the machining etc. it just seems to me that provided they have the capacity in their machine shop and foundry, this is money for old rope and probably a very nice little earner. It is probably a good way of giving new people in the organisation experience of producing and servicing F1 engines, without letting inexperienced staff loose on you're own engines.

[Valve Bounce]

Sorry Red, no anger in my post intended. Just a little humour on my part, and resignation to the fact that neither Prost nor Sauber can afford to get hot shot factory engines. As I posted elsewhere, I could not understand why Prost did not approach Renault in the first place. However, I cannot see ferrari put that much effort into getting full power for customers - they have enough cut out for them to get more power and reliability in their own engines as the season progresses.
Again Red, no anger intended - I preach peace and goodwill in this forum. As proof, check out my response to where Gerard says he cut out Buttplug's thread, to which I fully supported him.
When I first bought my PC, I also bought the book "Internet for Dummies" and I will always remember the warning of the author to be careful when writing e-mail. The tone of the e-mail can be quite different to the reader from what the writer intended. Sorry if I offended .

[Red]

No need to apologize VB! (Actually I need to apologize! Sorry. And I read those posts and valued them.) On the other hand this is casus beli! Ferrari engines are NOT the best?

No, seriously, the engines are good. And reliable and light. Quite agree, they will not evolve during the next year (although I suspect that Sauber/Petronas/Proton use their toolboxes a lot, not sure how successfully) and the next 050 engine will be more powerful, but they are aware of that. Certainly if a Prost/Renault deal will be made, he would get customer engines as well. I do not agree with "cannot afford them"! You know, they're far from being cheap! And anyone remembers that last year rumor about Prost/Heidfeld/Mercedes? But I think we're digressing, the topic was about Ferrari's production...

[RussianFriend]

I agree with Marshal. Production of F1 engine is not serial. Every item is assembling by hands, and it will be different hands. Other reason why ferrary engine wont be excellent for Prost I desribe in post regarding Gene and Prost: Prost constructor wont know something about the engine untill championship ends.

[SL]

All this assumes that Sauber and Prost know what "last years" engine looks like. Maybe someone has unlocked a garage in Italy, found a pile of old dusty engines dating back to the year dot. Then thought, a steam clean, a polish and hey, we could get good money for these.

SL

[EERO]

I think Marshall nailed it, good call, buddy.

Ferrari could even be casting extra blocks to this year's spec now, before the developement for next season gets fully underway.


And thanks to Red and Valve Bounce for dealing so decently with a possible misunderstanding-I really appreciate it guys.

[Valve Bounce]

I agree with Marshal also. However, lets look at the aspect of whose responsibility it will be to tweak these engines to optimum power and reliability. We have a split loyalty here, because if the engine were to be used for Ferrari, it will be assembled to "best practice", with all movable parts perfectly balancing, checked, inspected microscopically, etc, which will give maximum power and reliability. My point is, will the same care go into assembling the second hand customer engines, replacing parts which MAY be very slightly worn and less reliable, checking all parts to ensure that every part is still perfect? We are talking about engines with a zillion parts and a trillion things that can go wrong. NOW, if we have a championship for engines, as well as chassis and drivers, that would provide a whole lot of incentive to get the customer engines running up to speed. What do you guys think?