DTM How many tickets?

daviesfever · 22 Jan 2007, 15:08 (Ref:1821760)

I am thinking of volunteering for the DTM at Brands this june,if i do and get accepted will i also get a spare ticket for the "boss" and is this the case with all motor sport vision organised events at their circuits?

brandspost4a · 22 Jan 2007, 15:34 (Ref:1821769)

Last year, NO spare ticket was sent with our ticket but you were allowed to bring a "guest" with you and the guest was given a ticket at the gate. Why, who knows. I would guess a similar thing will be in operation this year. Also on the first day at sign on, our tickets were taken from us and we were given a very nice laminated pass on a DTM lanyard for the rest of meeting.

Bodysnatcher · 22 Jan 2007, 15:51 (Ref:1821780)

Somebody high up the Brands Hatch chain of command believes that some people only marshal in order to get a "free" ticket that they can sell on Ebay.

In order that this cannot occur MSVR have instituted a photoId hard card for all marshals at Brands MSVR events.

Nominees for your spare ticket should also be notified to MSVR in advance and they too will get a photoId hard card.

Both for marshals and their nominated "guest" the photoId cards will be validated by the addition of an event specific sticker.

Or so I understand from this..

To all MSVR Brands Hatch Marshals

Dear Marshal

Since the end of the 2006 racing season there has been much discussion on the way forward concerning marshals guest passes at MSVR promoted race meetings at Brands Hatch.

In November 2006 Jonathan Palmer met with Stephen Green, Alan Vance, Tristan Harris & myself to address the matter.

At the same meeting MSV agreed discounts on MudMaster driving experience for marshals alongside the other incentives already in place.

For 2007, marshals will be issued with a pass carrying photo I.D. For the appropriate promoted event a sticker will be issued that, when affixed to the pass, will allow the holder access to the circuit.

Each marshal is invited to nominate their guest pass holder normally husband or wife. Each guest pass will bear a photograph of the holder. Marshals families are very welcome and if you have children between the ages of 13 and 16 they will also be issued with a guest pass (with photo). Children 12 and under do not require a guest pass. Guests will not be required to arrive with the marshal.

As with the marshals pass, the guest pass will only be valid for the event if it has the event sticker attached.

I appreciate that, in the first instance, applying for the pass may seem a little complex but I’m sure you will, in the longer term, appreciate the value that it will bring.

The required form is attached.

Thank you for your understanding and I look forward to seeing you at MSVR events in 2007.

Best regards,

David Scott
Race Operations Manager

,contact details deleted>

I wish to apply for a Marshals Pass for MSVR promoted events at Brands Hatch in 2007.

Name:____________________________________________________

Address:___________________________________________________

Marshalling Organisation through which you volunteer:__________________

I also wish to apply for a Guest Pass

Relationship to marshal:_____________________________________________

Normally one pass will be issued for your husband / wife / partner.
To apply for an additional pass for a child age between 13 and 16, you will need to provide the same details as for the first guest.

Please return the completed form and photographs to:

<name and contact details deleted>

Please note that the passes will remain the property of MSV / MSVR and that the main pass holder is at all times responsible for all passes issued in the name of the main pass holder. Any abuse may result in the loss of all passes. Passes do not gain admission to Brands Hatch unless they bear the event sticker.

David Scott sent a follow up, trying to sort out the potential problem of more than one guest throughout a season situation, but since it's a PDF, I can't copy and paste it.

Me, I 'm down to marshal all MSVR 's events apart from the DTM. However, I'd like to drop by and see what's going on with the marshals that will be staying at my place for the event. So in theory I should apply for both a marshal's and a guest's card! In practice, I'm told it should be simpler than that.

daviesfever · 22 Jan 2007, 16:03 (Ref:1821786)

Thanks for the info all.
Bodysnatcher do you know how i could apply for the mentioned photo id cards for me and my wife, as being on the other side of the country Brands is not my local.

White flag man · 22 Jan 2007, 16:16 (Ref:1821797)

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviesfever

Thanks for the info all.
Bodysnatcher do you know how i could apply for the mentioned photo id cards for me and my wife, as being on the other side of the country Brands is not my local.

I don't believe there is any problem with that.
The problem that was brought was that, what happens if you want to take a different guest to different events? I believe the follow up asked us to write "No designated person", where it asks for name of guest, if that is the case.

Bodysnatcher · 22 Jan 2007, 16:23 (Ref:1821802)

I'm afraid the system is as new to me as it is to you.

I have in the past got myself into trouble with people in a race organisation by suggesting that things are being done in a way that seemed somewhat cavalier which in turn lead to discontent among some of those that wear (predominantly) orange. I do not wish to upset any of my fellow volunteers.

Thus I will only tell you to use the normal and proper channels for volunteering for MSVR events and let the officials in charge of that part of the process guide you as how best to obtain access to the circuit for both yourself and your guest.

So contact Mildred I suppose.

I attached the letter for information on how MSVR at Brands is planning access control.

My guess For marshals that will only be doing one of the biggies, a photo hard card system may be too expensive, and a variation of one the old systems applied.

**Stephen Green** · 22 Jan 2007, 18:47 (Ref:1821985)

Contact Mildred for the MSVR forms.

The photo passes are for all MSVR meetings, not just the big ones. As has been said above, if you envisage several different guests during the year, you ask for a form and put 'no designated person' or whatever you are asked to put on there by MSV.

No one yet has mentioned that if you go racing as a family, ie husband, wife and children, and your children are above the age of 13, your children will all be given passes to MSVR so they too can get in without you having to pay. That IS a step forward I hope you will agree.

If you take a regular guest with you such as your wife or husband, you will each be given a photo pass (once you have sent the photo to MSV) and will each be issued with an event sticker for each meeting you do.

brandspost4a · 22 Jan 2007, 18:52 (Ref:1821994)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

I

I attached the letter for information on how MSVR at Brands is planning access control.

My guess For marshals that will only be doing one of the biggies, a photo hard card system may be too expensive, and a variation of one the old systems applied.

I concur. My form will be going back with no regular guest on it.

As for "marshals" ALLEDGELY trying to sell "spare" tickets on Ebay, I'm sure and my fellow IT professionals on this board hopefully will agree with me that these people can be traced. Then any punishment can be dealt with by MSVR.

vw_nut · 22 Jan 2007, 19:25 (Ref:1822021)

so when will we hear about this for a1 gp?

as want to bring a very close friend with me

PapaJuliet · 22 Jan 2007, 19:44 (Ref:1822044)

It does make me wonder whether it is worth the hassle of volunteering for any MSVR events since they are not my regular circuits and at leat one is a pain to get to.

PJ

DavidBritainUK · 22 Jan 2007, 20:08 (Ref:1822072)

Balance hassle on one side against the enjoyment of the event... each to decide I guess.

I have already sent off my photo (should scare someone).

cowchap · 22 Jan 2007, 20:41 (Ref:1822115)

Does all seem unnecessarily complicated and is putting me off doing MSVR events-surely anyone selling tickets on e-bay or anywhere else cant be making much on the deal-cant see it being worth it and i'm sure not many marshals are that desperate too make a few quid-be very disappointed if they were!

**Stephen Green** · 22 Jan 2007, 22:23 (Ref:1822206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by vw_nut

so when will we hear about this for a1 gp?

as want to bring a very close friend with me

Send the form off to Mildred along with a passport photo of your friend. It's very easy, follow the instructions. A bit like making a model.......

**Stephen Green** · 22 Jan 2007, 22:25 (Ref:1822207)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowchap

Does all seem unnecessarily complicated and is putting me off doing MSVR events-surely anyone selling tickets on e-bay or anywhere else cant be making much on the deal-cant see it being worth it and i'm sure not many marshals are that desperate too make a few quid-be very disappointed if they were!

Sadly the few spoil it for the majority.

It's not hard is it. If you want to take a guest they have to have a pass. All you need is to fill in the form, send it off with a passport photo and they will get the ticket. I don't see what the hassle is.

Chigley · 22 Jan 2007, 22:25 (Ref:1822209)

Stephen/Bodysnatcher.

This all very good for the minority of marshals (in the main) that regularly frequent ten-tenths or are regulars at MSVR circuits. How are the majority of other marshals to be informed of, what is on the face of it, a system weighed in favour of MSVR regulars? as the address on the letter makes plain.

Quote:

To all MSVR Brands Hatch Marshals

If they wish to volunteer at short notice and don't have the benefit, or knowledge, of the ID card system what is the procedure? Before you could ring at the "last minute" and even have tickets left at the gate, if you need a ID card do you have no chance?

Ian

**Stephen Green** · 22 Jan 2007, 22:53 (Ref:1822241)

All marshals on the MSVR database will have been informed. As for those who wish to volunteer at the last minute, I am sure a solution will be found. MSVR won't want to turn marshals away.

Chigley · 22 Jan 2007, 23:04 (Ref:1822249)

Stephen, any idea when that will be? and for those not on the database who don't frequent ten-tenths?
Many thanks
Ian

**Stephen Green** · 22 Jan 2007, 23:07 (Ref:1822252)

Ian, if you e-mail Mildred she will send out the appropriate forms

mildred@brscc.co.uk

PapaJuliet · 23 Jan 2007, 02:14 (Ref:1822375)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Sadly the few spoil it for the majority.

It's not hard is it. If you want to take a guest they have to have a pass. All you need is to fill in the form, send it off with a passport photo and they will get the ticket. I don't see what the hassle is.

First of all I have to find a passport size photograph of myself which doesn't make me look drunk or wierd (I try to avoid cameras, if at all possible) which probably means a special trip into town at the weekend to try and find a photobooth.

Then I have to remember to post the form, after remembering to enclose aforementioned photographs. That's why I like Julian's website - it's "one stop" volunteering.

Third I have to decide who to designate for my guest pass or, if I don't want a regular guest, I have to figure out the procedure for getting a temporary pass for a one off event - would the guest need a photograph in that case? Or what if the guest suddenly can't go at the last minute? You can't really offer the pass to somebody else, can you?

Also, the suggestion from the letter appeared to be that the guest pass was reserved for the marshal's partner? What if he doesn't have one? Doesn't he get a guest pass? [Edit] Actually, its worse than that. The letter says "Each marshal is invited to nominate their guest pass holder normally husband or wife". That's a bit restrictive, isn't it?

Fifth, although I have marshalled at MSVR events, I don't remember receiving a letter so it's lucky I happened upon this thread. As Chigley mentioned... what about those marshals who don't read ten-tenths? How do they find out about this?

PJ

cowchap · 23 Jan 2007, 08:20 (Ref:1822496)

No its not hard,but as I said it just seems unnecessary,(hope I'm spelling this right),whenever I've brought a guest its been at very short notice,i.e. the night before.To meetings where I've been sent a spare ticket this has never been a problem.

**Asp** · 23 Jan 2007, 09:13 (Ref:1822535)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

No one yet has mentioned that if you go racing as a family, ie husband, wife and children, and your children are above the age of 13, your children will all be given passes to MSVR so they too can get in without you having to pay. That IS a step forward I hope you will agree.

When MSV changed the age of requiring a ticket to 13, there was a lot of complaining on here that families who wanted to go marshalling now had to pay to get the entire family in as they only got one guest ticket.

The guest pass system is a straightforward and good way to address this concern, the alternative would be for marshals to request X guest tickets for events, creating extra work and even without the guarantee it would be used by a family.

As regards "how are people meant to know", I presume that once people have volunteered who weren't already on the MSVR database they will receive a copy of the above letter, thus it will be easier sorted long in advance.
Yes, no doubt there will be one or two last minute availabilities. However, I would expect that it would be Brands Hatch regulars who find themselves available late in the day who will be going, and thus those who already have a pass - I would happily make a last minute decision to go to a meeting "down the road", but not one hours away.
And, if there are any exceptions to the above, they will be few and far between and I'm sure a solution (eg. name on the gate) could be arranged.

Bodysnatcher · 23 Jan 2007, 14:36 (Ref:1823835)

regarding the selling on of "guest tickets"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Sadly the few spoil it for the majority.

Sorry, Stephen, but I regard that as a total "URBAN MYTH".
In nearly 20 years at Brands I've never heard of anyone selling the spare. (Giving away, Yes) Nor others asking if I had any that I might like to sell on. It's this fixated view has led to the new and as DS noted somewhere, expensive pass system.

So, regarding the passes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

It's not hard is it. If you want to take a guest they have to have a pass. All you need is to fill in the form, send it off with a passport photo and they will get the ticket. I don't see what the hassle is.

No Stephen, it is'nt a hard procedure, and I willingly accept it as the required procedure to access MSVR's race circuit and make my voluntary contribution to the running of their business.
I realise that you, Alan, David (and the others mentioned whom I don't know) have tried to put together a system that satisfies all parties.
In some aspects it is a real improvement.
It seems like any number of kids that fall into the paying juvenile category can get cards.
If like me you're only five minutes away, your guest can drop by for just a few races in the afternoon without having to turn up at the crack of dawn to get a ticket handed over.

BUT. The spare ticket with final instructions worked fine for me and many many others. It's worked for years. FFS, Formula 1 will hand over a spare without requiring biometric data on the intended recipient of the pass. Goodwood and either of it's events. BTCC.

So, the MSVR system does smell, a bit.

What it smells like is somebody regarding us as base and venal.

That really, really does not feel nice.

The very fact that we contribute voluntarily to what racing clubs do over many years would indicate that profit is not a major motivating factor in what we enjoy doing.

(and yes, I have expressed this view through the correct channels, it was met with <shrug> and I paraphrase "that's just how things will have to be")

VENAL, that's today's word for anyone reading this far or getting a printout put on their desk

Stack · 23 Jan 2007, 17:29 (Ref:1823931)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asp

I would expect that it would be Brands Hatch regulars who find themselves available late in the day who will be going, and thus those who already have a pass - I would happily make a last minute decision to go to a meeting "down the road", but not one hours away.

Why Brands regulars? If I had planned something on a particular weekend and it fell through say on the monday, thus meaning I would be free to marshal that weekend I would be only too willing to travel the 3 hours to Brands....if I could get a pass!

**Stephen Green** · 23 Jan 2007, 17:31 (Ref:1823933)

I would like to reassure you and all marshals that your work at MSV circuits is greatly valued. There is no hidden agenda and the new system was designed to make it easier for marshals who take their families racing with them. I think that once the passes have been issued the system will work smoothly and shouldn't cause many problems. For those who take lots of different guests, we are working on a sensible solution so please bear with us.

cowchap · 23 Jan 2007, 17:34 (Ref:1823937)

Sorry to labour a point-but don't all children under 12 get in free to any meeting anyway.
I always thought that marshals bringing guests to meetings was a pretty good way of getting more people intersted in motorsport-i know some of the guests I've fetched in the past now attend several meetings a year-as paying punters,they'd rather pay than have to get up at 6.00 with me and sit through the warm-up sessions all morning.
I accept that something needs to be done to regulate who comes in but surely a system which in anyway puts people off doesnt bode well.

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