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16 May 2003, 09:07 (Ref:600671) | #1 | ||
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How To Reunite Irl And Cart And Keep All The Teams Alive: A Proposition Of Reform
People who are discussing CART-IRL unification have to face three basical problems:
1- Make US open-wheel stronger 2- Let small teams survive alongside bigger 3- Permitting variety and specialisation (road-street racing, ovals) After reflecting about that I make a purpose: CART and IRL unified in an US open wheel org., who manages such a championship: - x oval events (we can discuss about the number, but at least 10-12) - x road/street events Each kind of a circuit has its own championship and standings, BUT there will be also an overall one: infact each team can decide whether to specialise in a single type of events (e.g. only ovals) or to run both cathegories, but the total number of races made by each driver is 12 anyway. Doing like this, bigger teams can decide to run for the overall standing, but none of their drivers can decide differently. In other words, for instance, Nunn cannot place Scheckter in the all-oval championship, Takagi in the road one, and put Barron run for the overall standings: he has to decide if to participate for the overall championship with all his drivers or to specialise them in the same kind of a circuit. Of course, all the teams would be allowed to place entries in the INDY500 There should be prizes for winners, both specialised and overall (higher for overall) This is just a general proposition , and many modifications/improvement can be suggested. What do you think about it? Could it work as an effort to unify and strenghten US Open Wheel racing? |
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16 May 2003, 12:02 (Ref:600821) | #2 | ||
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The first thing that must happen is Tony George must be vacated from his current position of power. Once that is done and someone who actually has brains is put into power at IMS, then the road to recovery can begin.
Nothing will happen until TG admits his mistakes. |
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16 May 2003, 12:07 (Ref:600825) | #3 | ||
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In my opinion the way to oblige someone to admit his mistakes is not very effective: by the way CART should do the same thing.
My aim , anyways is to invite all you the forumsters to design all together the new open-wheel league we call for; does any one have something to add to the raw sketch I did? |
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You got to learn how to fall, before you learn to fly P.Simon |
16 May 2003, 12:37 (Ref:600871) | #4 | ||
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It's a good idea in theory, climb... It's just the economics of such an arrangement which could be troublesome. If someone could pull it off, I'd be all for it!
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"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
16 May 2003, 13:15 (Ref:600944) | #5 | ||
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Putting this together would be undoubtedly complex, Lee, but botf Tg and CARt have experience of doing it; I know that the most difficult thing would be to make them get along.
But there could be a reciprocal interest if economies of scale could be reached; for instance, many low budget teams could get to prime racing, so this formula is able to attract money and people that nowadays work on a lower level of racing. |
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You got to learn how to fall, before you learn to fly P.Simon |
16 May 2003, 13:16 (Ref:600945) | #6 | |||
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Back in the day here at Ten-Tenths, there was a section called Parc Ferme. It was a place where the members could write articles of opinion or race reports or whatever about motorsports. In May of 2001 I wrote a piece about a proposed reconciliation between CART and the IRL that is very similar to what Lee Janotta has suggested. I have updated it to meet todays changes and new affiliations.
Quote:
CART could keep the Toyota Atlantic series for a breeding ground for road racers and the IRL's Infiniti Pro Series is working well for the IRL. A unified front could also garner a much better TV package and offer much more to prospective sponsors. |
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16 May 2003, 14:18 (Ref:601021) | #7 | ||
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It was climb's suggestion, Kevin.
It still wouldn't satisfy the hard-core IRL fans who think things are getting too expensive and there's too little American presence. And any solution that makes the small teams suffer just won't work. You've got to scale back expenses when you're in this position, you can't bank on the economy shooting back up! I'm just pointing some issues that would need to be resolved, the basic idea is sound. The IRL engine package just wasn't right for CART for several reasons. The motors are just too big and heavy, they're the reason IRL cars almost always go into the wall backwards, which is highly dangerous. You need either a compact pure race motor like CART and F1 currently have, or a physically smaller 4 or 6 cylinder production engine with turbocharging. Plus the IRL cars look ugly as sin, like the ******* child of CART and F3000 cars. Last edited by Lee Janotta; 16 May 2003 at 14:20. |
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"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
16 May 2003, 14:29 (Ref:601029) | #8 | |||
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Quote:
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You got to learn how to fall, before you learn to fly P.Simon |
16 May 2003, 14:53 (Ref:601065) | #9 | ||
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I apologize to you both. I should have read closer. I feel like a moron now.
I agree that the 4.0 liter lump used in the IRL right now is part of the handling problem with the current IRL cars. However, a huge portion of that blame goes to the humongous gearbox used. It is twice as large as the boxes used in CART right now. That size difference does not include the crush box mounted on the back of the box either. The IRL uses this common gearbox as a way to make them ultra-reliable and common for all the teams. Reynard and Lola supply the gearboxes with their chassis and they have streamlined them and perfected them over time to the current evolution. However, after a long time to think about it, I dont think the V10 option is going to be viable. The F1 manufacturers don't care what it costs to develop the engines and if CART mandates their usage then many of the teams may be forced out as they won't be able to purchase or lease engines at the rates that F1 spends. Sure they would be cheaper with aluminum rods and mechanical valvetrains, but the idea of cost reduction to a CART team and to an F1 manufacturer is radically different. The FIA has been after the manufacturers to agree to cost reduction strategies for the last 5 years and they have fought tooth and nail to make it more expensive every single time. I don't see how an alliance with F1 is going to be cheaper for CART in the long run. |
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16 May 2003, 16:28 (Ref:601166) | #10 | ||
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I don't want the two series to get together; I don't like oval racing and think it's dangerous and boring.
But I agree that nothing can possibly be done until TG has joined the Choir Invisible, because he has scuppered every single suggestion so far that doesn't end in "And Tony George Retains Ultimate Control." |
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16 May 2003, 17:22 (Ref:601218) | #11 | ||
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Sounds like some good first steps, but why would the IRL want to do this?
CART puts itself in a vulnrable position by sacrificing tracks in the deal, what does the IRL sacrifice other than scheduling? The most critical factor is who controls the overall championship? In terms of financing 30 races is probably too expensive, bringing it down to 20-24 would probably fix the problem. What happends if events are financial losses, how does the race count get balanced? TG really only needs Indy and many of the oval races are not going to be successes regardless if the series semi-merge. Cost of series: Be vigilent in mandating chasis costs & developments. Lower displacement TURBOCHARGED engines are the way to go. Want to lower the rev limit? Fine, up the boost. We all know CART's current engine is running well under it's capability. Last edited by Snrub; 16 May 2003 at 17:25. |
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16 May 2003, 17:37 (Ref:601225) | #12 | ||
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IIRC CART has been willing to seek a compromise on more than one occasion in recent years but each time Tony George has been unwilling to accept the olive branch.
(wasn't it this time last year that Tony made that 'hammer' quote?) |
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16 May 2003, 17:41 (Ref:601229) | #13 | ||
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Exactly. Which is why Tony George can't be part of the equation. Indy has to be brought to it's knees once again. The guys who supported the split are just as ****ed at TG as we are now since he brought in the Japanese and Brazilians en masse.
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"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
16 May 2003, 18:08 (Ref:601251) | #14 | ||
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It may take a longer term solution to neutralize Tony George. The only bargaining chip that TG has is the race and the guaranteed TV contract. It does not matter who is running there right now, it is still one of the most famous races in the world. Despite the perception among CART fans, its name is still as important as LeMans and Daytona.
The IRL will remain on network TV, something that CART must do just to survive. For all the great things that Speedvision has done, it is still basically a premium/pay-per-view channel that is not available in all markets. ABC is available to everyone and to 75% of America on terrestrial antenna for free. It doesn't matter if Sky or TSN runs it live in primetime, if it does not get seen in the US it will not draw sponsors and it will eventually go away. Those are the hard facts of it. No matter how much we hope and pray and how many alliances are made with Ecclestone or Mercedes or VAG, CART must sell in the US and to do that it must be on TV that everyone has. If that means that half of the season is ovals and part of it includes that one 500 mile race then it must be done. Oval racing is a tradition in CART/Champ Car racing as much as methanol and the lack of fenders are. Otherwise CART will end up right next to Trans Am, on at 3AM on monday mornings in a one hour format and seen only as a specialized form of racing followed by just a few fans. Does anyone want to see CART reduced to being as visible as Formula Ford? Just to hold up a finger to oval racing? |
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17 May 2003, 03:16 (Ref:601558) | #15 | ||
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So, what we've seen over the past several days is that:
1. Most of us want to see some sort of reunification between the IRL and CART; 2. Most of us come up with the same ideas to do that, making CART road-course, IRL oval, a combined championship, and identical technical regulations. So, if we all can look forward in the same direction, what can we as fans do to make progress towards this vision? |
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