Champ Car in China in 2006

[enemy-ace]

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/champcar/auto/15843/

This will be interesting.

[Tenoch]

Last year i ended up at the IRL's race at Montegi without planning on it maybe in 2006 i'll end up in China. But in seriousness i'll believe when it happens, i mean Korea was schedule nothing happen. And let us not speak of South Africa, Argentina, Puerto Rico, a return to Brazil an europe.

[Mantom]

....And let us not speak of South Africa, Argentina, Puerto Rico, a return to Brazil an europe.

None of these races were scheduled, only rumored. Big difference.

[Tenoch]

Right you are but last years Korea nonsense stands.

[Amar7605]

Until there is a track layout I'll believe something.

[StickShift]

Autoracing1 is reporting that the race will take place at a redeveloped and lengthened Goldenport Park. A a natural terrain road course.

Goldenport Park in its current form 2.051 miles long.

I'd much rather be racing at Road America, Laguna Seca, or Mid-Ohio... but at least it's a road course.

[macdaddy]

Sounds very promising, this.

But why is the Pacific Rim so fundamentally important to ChampCar? Unless they can find major team sponsors or new manufacturers, I don't think I understand it. Do China and/or Korea have any major auto manufacturers who may some day wish to supply the series with engines?

[StickShift]

Sorry. Here is the correct link.

[Amar7605]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

But why is the Pacific Rim so fundamentally important to ChampCar? Unless they can find major team sponsors or new manufacturers, I don't think I understand it. Do China and/or Korea have any major auto manufacturers who may some day wish to supply the series with engines?

China is quickly becoming an economic power. Personally, I think this is a good move because China has 1 billion potential fans.

Maybe CC needs to expand to India as well. It is also becoming an economic power.

[macdaddy]

I don't care if China has 1 billion potential fans. All that ChampCar stands to gain from that is ticket and merchandise sales! There must be more of a "master plan" behind this, but I just can't figure out what it is.

[stmookeyj033]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

I don't care if China has 1 billion potential fans. All that ChampCar stands to gain from that is ticket and merchandise sales!

Nothing wrong with that.

[Snrub]

Going back a couple of years I wouldn't have a problem with China. Currently, the series needs cash influx, so if a race there keeps the series going then it's a worthwhile. The problem is that if the schedule consists of 12-14 races and the majority of them are outside of the US then it's not a US based series and you're basically trying to be F1-lite, but not directly competing with F1. It's conceptually not unlike A1GP. I'm not sure that is a good idea. All I'm saying is that CC had better also work on improving existing US races and in the future adding additional ones. Perhaps the overseas cash cow events are intended to make it possible to acheive this.

[Omega99]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

Sounds very promising, this.

But why is the Pacific Rim so fundamentally important to ChampCar? Unless they can find major team sponsors or new manufacturers, I don't think I understand it. Do China and/or Korea have any major auto manufacturers who may some day wish to supply the series with engines?

Korea has a lot of major corporations that operate around the world, and all the ones I'm about to name all seem to be expanding:

Huyndai - a monstrous company that makes everything from ships to cars.
Kia - a car company
Daewoo - an somewhat less successful car company
LG - major electronics brand
Samsung - major electronics brand

And that's just off the top of my head. There's big potential to attract some attention from those companies if they race in Korea, and those companies would have a lot to gain from advertising in North America.

[Mike_Wooshy]

Originally Posted by Omega99

Daewoo - an somewhat less successful car company
LG - major electronics brand

Daewoo is Owned By GM, also LG IIRC is part South Korean And Part British.
I think its good They are going to china, i would have throught they would have used the Comp speed track, thats is going to be built by Alan Wilson, who has helped make numerous Street tracks for trans Am, and the Old Denver track.

[BootsOntheSide]

They could be getting in on the ground floor of something big, but it's a major risk when the series is tryign to build a North American base it might not send the right message to race in China - is this going to be any use to the main existing sponsors If the track layout is still to be finalised and updated, they'll have to work hard to get it ready for next May.

[carsten66]

One point is, CC and the team owners have to attract new sponsors and so they are going where the business wants to go. All major companies from US and Europe are trying to get their feeds into the huge growing China market. And on the other side in the meantime China is one of the five biggest export-nations worldwide... the WTO ranking list: 1. Germany, 2. USA, 3. Japan, 4. China, 5. France... 9. Canada... so I think it makes sense for CC to move to China.

And the second point: Okay, the CC is US based but also a worldseries and we all knew that at the moment the US market is a very difficult place to be for CC. So perhaps the plan is first to grow outside and return back doors...!?

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by carsten66

And on the other side in the meantime China is one of the five biggest export-nations worldwide...

OT: Here is the latest export rankings for commercial services, which is very relevant here

1 USA
2 UK
3 Germany
4 France
5 Spain
6 Italy
7 Japan
8 Netherlands
9 China
10 Hong Kong

[Snrub]

GM is actually branding Daewoos in the US and Canada (presumably elsewhere too) as traditional GM brands. Anything lower than a Chevy Cobalt (minus the lingering stocks of Cavaliers and Sunfires) are Daewoos now. eg. Wave and Pursuit. Hyundai bought Kia several years ago, but automotive is only one of the divisions of the conglomerate and its financial status is not terrrific. I actually think Hyundai would be well served by getting involved in CC because they need to improve their image to match their rapidly improving products.

South Korea and China are very different countires. The average income in China is like 1/10th that of Korea's. It's obvious that China is an important country in the world, but does that mean that an CC race there is a good idea in the short to medium term? I'm not completley convinced of that.

[Dov]

A few pictures of Goldenport Park. Link

[Mike_Wooshy]

the track doesnt look that bad accutley if it does go on here it wont be to bad, a little flat but not so bad.

[Mantom]

South Korea and China are very different countires. The average income in China is like 1/10th that of Korea's. It's obvious that China is an important country in the world, but does that mean that an CC race there is a good idea in the short to medium term? I'm not completley convinced of that.

China is currently the 4th largest consumer of automobiles in the world. Current trends and predictions estimate China will be the #2 automobile consumer by 2010 - 2nd only to the USA. The point being China is paying lots of money to other parties for product. This is how Champ Car benefits, and probably the only thing that matters.

[GP Racer]

Anyway you look at this, going to China is a huge gamble IMHO.

Does CC really have the budget to do this right? They can't even promote themselves properly in there home-base of North America, so how would they get the word out in a country like China, where everything is done so differently? What would make the Chinese care? The vast majority don't even own a car, and it's a country with no racing heritage at all. And for all of the hoopla about what a powerhouse China is, the vast majority of people still don't make enough to pay for a ticket to a race.

You also have to take the politics between our two countries into consideration. We are not exactly best friends, and the rhetoric between China and Taiwan just heated up immensely again last week. Chances are by 2006, things might be very tense between us and China, thereby possibly having to cancel the race altogether. Alot of risk here.

The warm reception we have received here could lead to even bigger things in the future, including the potential to bring Chinese drivers and teams into the series.”

If KK thinks this is a good thing, than he is more out of touch with his fan base than I thought...

[Electrocuted]

Here's what I'm thinking as possible?? I broke it down into sections because I was having problems following and understanding it.

Cleveland, Portland, Denver, SanJose, and Vegas are all self-promotes or co-promotes or track rental. OWRS loses a few million dollars plus the million for the tv production and time, per weekend at these tracks. Roughly $5,000,000.00 times 5 tracks = $25,000,000.00 loss fairly easily.

Then,, back a few years ago the Track Owner Revolt left Pook with little choice but to reduce the tracks sanction fee's down to more market supported couple million dollars,, and those tracks/promoters were still not able to make money and the parties did not re-sign race contracts. From MPH documents, the other stateside sanction fee's at LB and Mlwk were reduced. And I dont remember for sure,, wish I did,, but Mexico doesnt pay what it could.... inside deal with Gerry.

Therefore,,, that deal at Surfers sure looks good...... Government paying real well to run down there. Next thing they got SanJose to throw in a little money..... Now it seems,,, OWRS sure is going after the foreign races more strongly then ever before?? It makes good buisness sense,, get the foreign Gov's in Asia to pay big money to race in their countries. Then use the Asain profit to keep the stateside races and series running. Bottom line would be the NAFTA market still gets 10 races a year,, and another half dozen foreign races keeping the series operating loss within a reasonable $25,000,000.00 or so, per year.

OR,,,, worst case,,,,, worst case,,,,,, do the Amigo's understand that OWRS can never stay running long term,, the market doesnt support the costs,,, and the foreign races are a LAST DITCH effort to keep the series alive?? Period???

[Snrub]

GP's definately got a point regarding the budget. It's all fine if CC is getting enough money to cover all costs and promotion, etc. but we don't really know the details.

Regarding the political ramifications, while the Taiwan vs. China stuff has once again ramped up a notch, the US has taken an bit of an unusual response, endorsing a "One China" policy, etc. I think that the US's huge commercial interests in selling to China and production in China are substantial enough to silience major critisims, etc. On top of it, the US gov't and trade surpluses are spiralling out of control. China is on of the major financers of the US right now and have a direct interest in ensuring the dollar doesn't fall to the floor (despite a ~30% recent decline) because they link their currency value to the USD. You can't really tell the bank to shove it. I think the US/China relationship will continue like that with virtually all of it's other friends, frosty on the political relationship side, but business as usual. Just because you buy/sell to someone doesn't mean you have to like them.

Electrocuted, interesting point about Surfer's and the potential for other overseas races.

[GP Racer]

On another point, if China, Korea, and Japan happens, along with Surfers, that means that CC could be running around the Pacific, away from there home base for anywhere from 8-12 weeks of the season. Are CC fans OK with this?