GT1 vs DTM

[JAG]

I noticed today that the Le Mans DTM pole was 1.30, the Oreca Saleen pole 1.36!

At Oscherslaben DTM pole was 1.19, FIA GT 1.21.

Spa DTM 2.13, FIA GT 2.14.

What spec is the FFSA Oreca Saleen running to?

Do you reckon the factory Corvette and Aston (running in Le Mans spec) would match the 1.19 at Oscherslaben? WTCC cars do 1.35s so you can see DTM cars are not exactly touring cars these days.

[Hazard]

The Saleen would have been weighted due to penalties, so your comparison isn't perfectly fair, but still - 6s would not be the difference - so the DTM's are faster.

The answer you've already touched on though - WTCC cars are 2-litre road cars, the Saleen's etc. are high powered sportscars, hence the difference there.

But DTM cars are V8 silhouettes - not true tin-tops at all - it's not surprising they're faster - they're not far off being spec-F1 cars disguised as road cars.

[SALEEN S7R]

I agree that overall the DTM cars are faster than GT1 cars, however take the Spa 24hrs for example. If the factory Corvette squad ever decided to enter the race along with the Prodrive squad with their DBR9's I would expect to see the GT1 pole time be faster than the DTM pole time, this would especially be the case if the cars were just set up for a flat out 90 minute sprint race like the DTM. IMO.

What would be good I think is to see what is faster at a true speed track like Monza, personally I would bet on the GT1 car pole time being faster than the DTM's. Still, overall it is fair to say that the DTM cars would be faster overall than a GT1 car at most circuits. IMO. Unless of course you brought one of the works Prodrive DBR9's or the factory Corvettes into the equasion then I think things might be differnt.

[pirenzo]

The DTM's are probably slower in a straight line, but they generate way more downforce.

I would expect DTM downforce levels aren't a great deal far off LMP1 in all honesty.

Their tyres are almost certainly softer and grippier too, afterall, they don't have to do three stints at Le Mans!

[ger80]

Better compare DTM vs GT500

[Viper GTS-R***]

Originally Posted by JAG

I noticed today that the Le Mans DTM pole was 1.30, the Oreca Saleen pole 1.36!

That 1.36 pole of the Saleen was for the first race.
For the second race his pole was a 1:34.579 including 40 kg ballast!

Originally Posted by ger80

Better compare DTM vs GT500

I'm very curiouse who will set the best time in Spa for excemple.
But indeed, DTM is a better match for GT500 then for GT1 i think too.

PS: A little bit of the pic but: MTO Mirabeau's Viper set a 1:34.980 in second quali, just 4 hundreds slower then the ORECA Saleen! That's nice

[Kempi]

DTM cars are silhouette prototypes. They don't have anything in common with touring cars and very little with GT-like sportscars.

Plus, they are lighter than the GT1 cars.

[SALEEN S7R]

Yes, but DTM cars also have around 500bhp, a top class GT1 car has around 650bhp.

[Kempi]

Which speaks even more for their prototype like suspension and aero character.

[courageous]

The other thing is DTM cars have shorter races, so don't have to be built with reliability in mind as much as GT1 (the same is true for GT500) - look back a couple of years to when Audi/Opel converted their DTM cars for the 'ring 24hrs and you'll see the mods that were needed to keep the cars running bought them into line with GT2ish cars.

Put them all in a proper endurance race & GT1 would still win IMO.

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by courageous

The other thing is DTM cars have shorter races, so don't have to be built with reliability in mind as much as GT1 (the same is true for GT500)

SuperGT runs 500km/3h races with a 1000km one thrown in, very similar to GT1 actually, so GT500 cars certainly aren't as frail as DTM cars.

[SALEEN S7R]

Yeah I agree, and to me Super GT is more of a sportscar series than the DTM is at the moment, mainly because the DTM series recently changed its formula slightly and the cars switched from coupes to 4 door saloons.

[Splatz the Cow]

The quickness order is SuperGT, DTM, than FIA-GT. Not sure where the WTCC cars fit..

Perhaps it is also worth mentioning that the FIA-GT cars have shed loads of torque all across the power band, which deadens to keep them below 650. Remember, the Vipers used to be capable of 700bhp and 850Nm with restrictors a few years ago, and weighed 1150Kg.

[Bernard Bram]

Originally Posted by courageous

The other thing is DTM cars have shorter races, so don't have to be built with reliability in mind as much as GT1 (the same is true for GT500) - look back a couple of years to when Audi/Opel converted their DTM cars for the 'ring 24hrs and you'll see the mods that were needed to keep the cars running bought them into line with GT2ish cars.

I'm not sure if this is the case. Afaik DTM engines and drivetrains have to last the whole season. Granted that's still only 10 hours total but definitely not sprint distance. Modifying a car for the Nordschleife is a completely different challenge.