Here goes.....drivers that deserve a seat.

[Skam85]

Here goes (in no particular order):

M Schumacher Probably the best driver ever. No doubt deserves a seat for as long as he wants one.

Raikkonen Along with Alonso one of the future World Champions. Absolutely no doubt about it. Deserves a seat with any team he wishes

Alonso Also a future WDC. I look forward to watching him, Kimi, Webber and Montoya going for it hammer and tong. He will do to Renault what Michael has done at Ferrari

Coulthard Needs to work on quali, but ALWAYS puts on a good, if not great race performance. Next to Michael, probably the most consistent RACE driver of his era.

Webber Finally an Aussie that could win a WDC!!! Here's hoping.....

Montoya One of the 'future stars'. But he had better get his act together. Let's hope McLaren brings him a WDC. I don't think he's got the best from Williams. Too much angst there.

Barrichello I would love to see him FIGHT Michael for a year, to see exactly how good he is. We all know he's good and is capable of beating Michael every now and then, but the jury's still out on whether he can do it consistently.

Button Look, before this year, I really wasn't sure. But now he's proved himself in a top-notch car, he's got my vote. Good luck trying to beat Webber though...

Heidfeld After his lacklustre effort in 2003, I think 'Quick Nick' has performed this year. He has proved himself against the likes of Raikkonen, Alesi and Massa so I can't see why he doesn't deserve an F1 seat.

Fisichella All Fisi needs is the right motivation. He has proved this year that he CAN drive and I look forward to his battle with Alonso next year.

Villeneuve This guy has proved that he can beat Michael. Only he, DC, Kimi, Rubens and Montoya can say that of the 'current' drivers, so it is rare. Look, to be honest, he built BAR and was real unlucky not to be around this year. Like Fisi and Juan Pablo, he just needs the right motivation, but he IS a real good driver.


To be honest Ralf and Trulli are demotivated, but I think Ralf has a chance at Toyota to build them into something. But the jury's out there. Panis should retire gracefully rather than 'go one more year'. Massa, Pizzonia, Klien and Zonta are still unproven. Trulli had a great start to the year, but ever since he announced he's leaving, he's been nowhere. an F1 driver needs to be on it every race weekend, every test session, every practice and quali, and Trulli isn't that. Pantano, Bruni, Baumgartner, da Matta do not belong in F1. Sorry guys but you've had your chance. Let promising rookies such as Briscoe, Glock, Liuzzi have their chance to see if they can't make anything of F1.

So there's my thoughts.

I now declare this discussion open!!

[Paarma]

It has been suggested that Trulli's sudden lack of form is not actually his fault, but Flavio Briatore's who is alledgely favoring Alonso quite heavily. These things are difficult, if not impossible to prove, but I think Trulli should stay for at least year or two.

As for Villeneuve...if he shows the pace then why not, but BAR shouldn't hire him solely for his past success, because he had long periods without success as well back then.

[Knowlesy]

Sato and Davidson deserve seats.

[Skam85]

He did, but it was masked by the car's lack of performance. Just when BAR were on the up, DR dropped him. Bummer for him. And i don't think his move to BAR in the first place was entirely money motivated. Remember the Williams in 1998 wasn't too good and I think he saw the chance to build a team in BAR and he took it. Of course it did help a little that it came with a fat salary!

[BootsOntheSide]

Other than the current field, I think Wilson, Bourdais, Liuzzi, Allmendinger (CART rookie leader), Toccachello, Enge, Green, Davidson and Pizzonia are worthy of a chance.

Out of the current drivers, I've got my doubts about Bruni, Baumgartner and Zonta. Pantano and Klien have done well at junior level, so they may just need more time, a more supportive team, or a better car to show what they can do. Maybe Panis and Massa aren't quite up to the job right now. In reality, it's a shame only 20 drives are available - hopefully the plans to make it easier for new teams to enter will work out.

[alfasud]

Originally posted by Skam85
Villeneuve This guy has proved that he can beat Michael. Only he, DC, Kimi, Rubens and Montoya can say that of the 'current' drivers, so it is rare. Look, to be honest, he built BAR and was real unlucky not to be around this year. Like Fisi and Juan Pablo, he just needs the right motivation, but he IS a real good driver.

Only he, DC, Kimi, Rubens and Montoya? Hasn't Alonso beat Michael - lapped him once in 2003. What about Trulli, one of only two other drivers to win a race this year. Plus Alonso and Trulli have done it much more recently that Villeneuve.

[raul_iulian]

(ALFSUAD) One time Mika have beat Michael an JV beat Michael at the eand of the season, in the race for the title (1997) Actually michael "tried to beat" JV, if u know what i mean.
JV - he deserves a seat (but only a good one so he can show u guys what he is made of). Raul

[climb]

This thread has a basic problem: deserving a seat is not a complete definition of the matter: what matters is deserving a seat more than others.

Once again, as raul rightly points out, it's also about what kind of a seat.

summing these two principles, I conclude that, for instance, a JV's presence is pointless: tit would be a nonsense to drive for a mid-backfield team, and there apparently are no available seats in the crop, considering that current drivers deserve to keep their places more than him to take them over.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by raul_iulian
JV - he deserves a seat (but only a good one so he can show u guys what he is made of). Raul

So your saying that he can only get the job done given a good seat? If thats the case, he doesn't deserve a seat. In a bad seat, the first thing he has to do is beat his team-mate, if he can't do that, then how can he deserve a good seat?

[Slippy Diff]

Originally posted by Skam85

Coulthard Needs to work on quali, but ALWAYS puts on a good, if not great race performance. Next to Michael, probably the most consistent RACE driver of his era.

Puts on a great race but not a great race performance. Rules him out then doesn't it. He has never been able to make the best use of the machinery he has been given. Always overshadowed by his team mates.
The look on Ron's face at Spa when he saw the rear ending incident was priceless!!

[camcartfan]

I have to say da Matta deserves a ride as well. While in CART, he proved time and time again that he can be a dominate and consistant winner. Although, he is the type of driver that needs a good car to be good. In CART, he started with lesser teams and did not prove himself. Once he went to Newman/Haas, nobody could beat him.

[raul_iulian]

He has beaten his temmate- zonta, panis and with Button, well nobody, nobody can fire a good driver, so DR AND COMPANY had to make JV look bad> Think what happend to Irvine when they(ferrari) "lost" his wheel

[Dani Filth]

with guys like Bourdais and Liuzzi . . there is no room for JV .. or at least i dont see one

[mstar]

WHy do people keep saying DC is one of the best RACE DRIVERs?? all his team mates have finished ahead of him in the championship!! (i think thats correct)

And he gets out-raced by kimi more then he should be judging by lap times, and position by the end of the race anyway.

[twig]

A lot of the poor race positions are due to the even worse race positions. I don't quite agree that he is one of hte best RACE drivers - but maybe it is the fact that what they are comparing it to isn't good at all.

I think there are many more drivers out there who are more consistant race drivers - his teammate being one of them.

[mstar]

well i agree twig its a idea certain people have that DC is the "best race driver" in F1 after michael. Where did that come from?????????????

[RedNine Racing]

Anthony Davidson and Timo Glock are ones who spring to my mind.
Others are Jacques Villeneuve and V.Liuzzi.

[mstar]

how good is GLock????

[StickShift]

F1 worthy youngsters:
Sebastien Bourdais
Vivantonio Liuzzi
Bjorn Wirdheim
Anthony Davidson
Franck Montagny

Former F1 drivers whom deserve another chance:
Jacques Villeneuve
Alex Wurz
Antonio Pizzonia
Justin Wilson

btw, Enrico Toccacello?

[Kicking-back]

Toccacello's been around the block too many times without really impressing until this year.

[TeddyG]

It is a crime Villeneuve can't seem to find a seat. He should be in F1, however at this point I'd be happy to see all the speculation come to an end so that he can just move on...to NASCAR!

[Mr V]

Originally posted by raul_iulian
so DR AND COMPANY had to make JV look bad>

My apologies, but please explain this to me! Why would they want to make JV look bad? Why would they want to ruin a drivers season when the points he could get would help them more in the constructors championship, then still dump the driver at the end of the year when he's out of contract?

IF BAR and David Richards wanted to make him look bad, why would Villeneuve want to go back there as he reportedly does for 2006, surely, by your reckoning, the same thing would happen again next year?

:confused:

[Grimace]

Originally posted by mstar
WHy do people keep saying DC is one of the best RACE DRIVERs?? all his team mates have finished ahead of him in the championship!! (i think thats correct)

And he gets out-raced by kimi more then he should be judging by lap times, and position by the end of the race anyway.

Totally correct! He has had more chances with good equipment and the results are not there.

And the inital post to this string said "Finally an Aussie
capable of a World drivers championship"

should have read "Finally ANOTHER Aussie"

Who was the 1980 World Drivers Champion???????????????????

I hope Villeneuve gets a better seat than Sauber

Australia has the talent for F1 just not the commercial $$$ backing that other nations endow on their up and coming open wheel drivers.

[BootsOntheSide]

In DC's defence, his team-mates have been Damon Hill, Mika Hakkinen and Kimi Raikkonen. Two champions and one likely future champion.

Ironically, early in his career a lot of peopel felt that he was stronger in qualifying than in the race - he's completely failed to adapt to one-lap qualifying, and that's cost him the chance to match or beat Kimi over the last 2 years. Chances are that it'll be gone for next year, which makes him an even more valuable acquisition for a team like BAR or Jaguar.

ALthough I wouldn't take these facts as telling 100% of the story, he's 6th in the all-time list of points scored (even when you recalculate the last 2 years into the old 10-6-4-3-2-1 system), and has won more races (13) than any current driver bar Michael, and his win percentage is far better than Kimi, Montoya or Alonso can boast.

[Skam85]

Originally posted by mstar
all his team mates have finished ahead of him in the championship!! (i think thats correct)

Hate to be picky, but in 1997, 2001 and 2002 he easily beat Flying Finns.