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14 Jan 2005, 16:47 (Ref:1200992)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
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Creation Switches to Judd Power
This definitely caught my eye this morning. From crash.net:
http://www.crash.net/uk/en/news_view...=28&nid=104219 I think this is a good move personally. Judd has been active in sportscar racing for sometime. They have certainly worked on making their engines reliable over 24 hours. Creation are serious for 2005. They are definitely looking for reliability and consistency. Add to this that they will be on Michelins and look out for the blue rocket in 2005! Last edited by jhansen; 14 Jan 2005 at 16:48. |
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__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein 
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14 Jan 2005, 18:48 (Ref:1201064)
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#2 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 89
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So what do we call the car now? haha
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__________________
~Ashley~
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14 Jan 2005, 19:07 (Ref:1201075)
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#3 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 656
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A Zytek-Judd? I thought the chassis was still a Zytek.
from crash.net - "Creation will be targeting success in the Le Mans Endurance Series and - subject to an entry being granted - the 24 Hours of Le Mans" Obviously taking no chances after last year's ACO selection fiasco Last edited by gi_gav; 14 Jan 2005 at 19:08. |
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14 Jan 2005, 19:10 (Ref:1201077)
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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It'll be a Creation Judd... shortened to Crudd.
 Hopefully they will find some reliability to go with their speed now. |
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14 Jan 2005, 19:12 (Ref:1201078)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
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But it's not a Zytek chassis. It's actually a DBA4-03S-Judd now.
See here for explanation: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/rey02s.html |
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__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
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14 Jan 2005, 20:44 (Ref:1201173)
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#6 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,761
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this is a pretty interesting move as the Zytek powerplant has been strong all along in terms of performance so this must be a reliability move, it will be interesting to see how the car performs as the XV should be right around the Zytek's output but with a slight reduction in weight as well as an increase in reliability as the Judd is now a 24 hour engine...
plus, we can't forget how good those Judds sound... man i can't wait for sebring!!! |
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14 Jan 2005, 21:02 (Ref:1201197)
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#7 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 326
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well personally i think the zytek V8 sounds better. being american i prefer the V8 rumble compared to the high pitch make your ears bleed scream of the judd V10's. with that being said i do like the sound of the ferrari V12 that sound i can live with. as far as creation switching to judd well we'll have to see. judd has a proven track record now but i think zytek's engines are coming on strong. Zytek is also going to use a 4 liter version of it's V8 for the new MG touring car in the german DTM series since Zytek is developing the MG DTM car. remember back in 2001 when teh panoz LMP 07 used a 4 liter Zytek, the engine had power to match the audis on straights but the engine was never designed to be put in a front engined car which is why it had so many problems. given a proper development time i think the panoz lmp 07's with the zytek V8 would have been a formidable package but Mr. Panoz i feel was too impatient.
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__________________
Always Expect the Unexpected
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14 Jan 2005, 21:11 (Ref:1201205)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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The Judd in this case is the KV (XV?), which is also V8.
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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14 Jan 2005, 21:20 (Ref:1201212)
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#9 | ||
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Registered User
Rookie
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 32
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Since they will be running a 24 Hour test in March does that mean Sebring is out of the picture?
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14 Jan 2005, 23:28 (Ref:1201280)
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#10 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,761
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i'm pretty sure they are running a 24 hour test in february, but they are definitely going to be at sebring...
and the Judd in the Creation will be the XV which is an evolution of the KV 3.4 Liter V8 |
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15 Jan 2005, 06:17 (Ref:1201409)
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#11 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 326
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well let's just hope it's reliable in the creation car. it certainly has the power. i wish the creation boys good luck and i hope they will do a lot more alms races in the future
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__________________
Always Expect the Unexpected
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15 Jan 2005, 07:51 (Ref:1201437)
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#12 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,102
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Quote:
If you were hoping to see the Blue Rocket at Sebring I think you will be disappointed. 24 hour test in March, then Ricard test followed by Spa 1000kms. That will be the build up to their assault on the 24 hours at Le Mans as things stand. |
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15 Jan 2005, 10:43 (Ref:1201484)
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#13 | |||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9,482
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Quote:
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15 Jan 2005, 12:59 (Ref:1201534)
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#14 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,831
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Quote:
2001 trap speeds, top 10: 7 Bentley EXP Speed 8 333 km/h (206.5 mph) 5 Cadillac Northstar LMP 325 km/h (201.5 mph) 4 Audi R8 324 km/h (200.9 mph) 10 Dome-Judd S101 332 km/h (205.8 mph) 21 Ascari-Judd A410 319 km/h (197.8 mph) 3 Audi R8 - 318 km/h (197.2 mph) 20 Ascari-Judd A410 325 km/h (201.5 mph) 16 Dallara Mopar 318 km/h (197.2 mph) 2 Audi R8 328 km/h (203.4 mph) 302 km/h 37 Reynard-Judd 01Q 314 km/h (194.7 mph) 12 Panoz LMP07 303 km/h (187.9 mph) 11 Panoz LMP07 302 km/h (187.2 mph) Clearly the 07's lacked power and couldn't hang with a wet rag on the straights. Bu then LMP07's problems were many. The car was full of compromises from the begining and while the engine wasn't up to snuff, many things were not up to snuff. Having said that, Multimatic spent a year with the car after Panoz gave up and they couldn't get anything out of it. Suffice to say, if you compromise your design from the begining you end up with something untenable in the end. The LMP07 was doomed from the start. |
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15 Jan 2005, 14:07 (Ref:1201563)
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9,482
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Slick, for what I saw on the track in 2001, the P07 was appaling... too bad, while the shape of the car was impressive... sharp... really great, IMHO.
The car and the engine deserved a better fate, but there was really too much work on it (IMO again). That said, Zytek showed us was they were able to do with the DBA... those that were at LM in 1999 may remember the wonderful - but consternating - Audi GTP... a lot of cars deserved - and still deserve - more time, including my favourite one (the CLR). The worst thing was that the car didn't stand wet weather... in 2001...  I don't intend to open a debate here... just my 2p about the P07... Last edited by Fab; 15 Jan 2005 at 17:48. |
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15 Jan 2005, 15:26 (Ref:1201585)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,831
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Quote:
Yes, irregardless to what happened with the LMP07, Zytek has certainly shown the way in recent years with the DBA and their 3.4 liter V8. |
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15 Jan 2005, 17:43 (Ref:1201622)
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#17 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,761
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if creation don't go to sebring, man will LMP1 be slim...
doesn't matter, i'll have GT1 to pay attention to |
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15 Jan 2005, 23:57 (Ref:1201883)
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#18 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 326
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well i guess i was proven wrong about the straightline speed, but i do think that if andy thorby spent more time with the panoz lmp 07 it would have worked out. i know the car was aerodynamic but anyway i just thought the car deserved more development time
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__________________
Always Expect the Unexpected
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16 Jan 2005, 01:20 (Ref:1201931)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,831
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Quote:
"The wind tunnel program was a major problem. We were short on model-making resources, and having begun the program at Glasgow University wind tunnel (40% scale, moving ground), we had to pull out after encountering numerous problems with it. I asked for 40 days testing, but in fact had only 25 days prior to having to fix the design. Of those, most were disrupted due to tunnel or model problems to the extent that, in my current project (Lister LMP), it has taken only 8 days testing to surpass the total number of runs I had on the LMP07. The result of this was that neither the aerodynamics nor the cooling was satisfactorily resolved" |
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16 Jan 2005, 01:40 (Ref:1201938)
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#20 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 326
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ok anyway creation should be a good team, the chasis is good now with michelin tires and the judd V8 it should make a potent audi beater, i just don't like the engine sound
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__________________
Always Expect the Unexpected
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16 Jan 2005, 06:44 (Ref:1202009)
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#21 | |||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9,482
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Quote:
Last edited by Fab; 16 Jan 2005 at 06:47. |
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17 Jan 2005, 10:29 (Ref:1202853)
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#22 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 376
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one should not underestimate the implications of an engine swap.ok the DBA was short on cooling efficiency anyway so Creation had to do something there anyway.But
wouldn´t a swap to the new spec engine installation of the Zytek 04s solved the reliability issues cheaper? Different engine (longer higher wider ) means different monocoque gearbox interfaces,cooling layout ,new electronics...maybe even different wheelbase with accompagning change of bodywork...One hopes Creation has chosen the right decision, the conversion performed by KWM with mrs Salter and Philips who headed the project at Reynard back then ,one can hope it all comes round with a new star born . |
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17 Jan 2005, 17:56 (Ref:1203125)
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#23 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 785
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The switch to Judd is effectively done with help from KWM. The Judd XV was meant to be the MG CART engine. It's reportedly lighter than the Zytek, and probably of comparable dimensions. It revs higher, and gets all the Judd tips on how to make the ancilliaries work for 5000 km.
My take on the LMP07: I've always wondered how an LMP07 would have performed (and looked!) with separate Dallara pontoons to free up radiator intake and fine tune the front diffuser. I'd have fitted a Judd GV5 for power and torque, or even the EPP V8. Think big time ventilated engine bay and engine intake like a GTS Corvette/Ferrari to have long trumpets. Too bad recent rules would just destroy any possiblities for rear downforce on a front engined prototypes... |
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18 Jan 2005, 08:31 (Ref:1203563)
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#24 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 376
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looking into the spec sheets of Zytek and Engine developments the XV is over 3 inches longer....so what is a comparable dimension?
I don´t say it´s impossible but I don´t see the technical advantages(or maybe the new spec zytek engine is not as reliable as they claimed,´the engine blowup at LM was officially traced back to a broken oillinefitting originating from the accident damage early in the race ..) |
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