Unification Near?

[Ac.]

The following was found in the Champweb "gossip" section. If there is any truth to this piece then it could prove to be very interesting. The issues to be resolved are not any easier, but the right people would be leading the charge.

Silent talk had Mario Andretti and Roger Penske sitting down in the Penske Motorhome during the rain delay with both very disappointed in what the Indy 500 has become (lack of fan and media interest).
Some type of agreement between the two has Penske and Andretti sitting down for some serious discussions between them and coming up with a plan to unify the two series in the next few months. Penske will use his muscle on George, and Mario the respect he has around the Champcar series. Word is that they both agree that in order for the series to unify, George has to give up the helm and just own the series but appoint someone else to run the series, the schedule will have to be a compromise of oval/street and road races etc.
They plan on coming up with a potential leader, set of guidelines, schedule, engine, chassis etc . and present it to the two groups in private and then make it known public. Goal is to have a unified Indy 500 in 2005 (coming up with a set of rules so that both series can use their equipment) and be unified in 2006, but they hope that both sides realize that it really all should be done for 2005.

[Purist]

A serious package change won't be feasable until at least 2006 if this goes through. It will take time for manufacturers to regroup. Any such solidification would likely ahve to wait till 2006 or 2007.

I agree though that Mario and Roger are the right people to have at the head of this effort.

[Tim Northcutt]

Well....


I'd love to see it happen....but I just don't see it happening....

A lot of bad blood and animosity would have to be set aside....period...and the egos are too big in this issue for that to happen....

and I know which Forum this is...but if you did not watch the "Race" on Sunday, you missed on helluva show....

excellent action with cars running 3 and 4 wide down the staights to pass for position, lots of cars in contention, and an exciting event....far and away the best race I've watched in ANY racing series so far this year....

That had the stands Packed full (despite the bad weather) plus spectators filling the spectator mounds in the infield....

So I wasn't disappointed with the Indy 500 this year....guess Penske was because they got their butts kicked all month long....


and I really don't care what Mario thinks....


But that's just me...

[Dov]

What did Mario say that makes you not care what he thinks?

[rustyfan]

If someone could convince Tony George to become the Bill France of indycar racing, I think that would be a good idea.

Then again, if someone like Brian France was appointed to run the show, we'd have to run for the bomb shelters because there would be no saving us then!

[Dov]

IMO this is all based on speculation so I don't see any reason to discuss it now. However, when/if OWRS & the IRL camp announce that they are talking about uniting the two series again, I'm sure we'll all have plenty to say then!

[KC]

What would be gained by CART and the IRL if they did unify? Even if all could set aside their differences and animosity.

Positives...
1. The obvious thing would be a unified series with all the players having access to Indy, Long Beach, Cleveland, etc. On that I can see almost nothing but positives.
2. A chance to get some sponsors to come back to open wheel racing that now reside in stock car racing.
3. Reynard and Lola have proven that they can build oval and road course chassis. I think Dallara and GForce have done enough road course racing that this will not pose a problem for them as well and this offers up the teams a wide variety of chassis to choose from.

Negatives...
1. A unified TV package would need to be addressed. I would have a major problem with ABC Sports/ESPN handling coverage. They have proved in the past that they are more than willing to throw open wheel racing under the bus and jump to anything else they want to broadcast at the drop of a hat. CART's TV ratings were dropping long before the split. I am not laying the ratings drop totally at the feet of ABC Sports/Ohlmeyer Productions/ESPN because CART's management group had a large part of that as well, but CART's management group is gone now and ABC Sports is still around. In my opinion, open wheel racing needs a partner in its coverage, not just a media outlet interested only in their end of the deal.
2. Maintaining control of the manufacturers is paramount. NASCAR keeps an iron fist on engine development for a reason... stability. CART was torn apart by the arms race that went on between Honda and Toyota. Both manufacturers started dictating terms to CART and holding their own engines hostage as the leverage they needed. This has already started to happen in the IRL. Toyota demanded major engine block architectural changes before entering, Honda demanded that engine leases be permitted and the vicious cycle has started all over again. Already Nissan/Infiniti have quit and Chevrolet are relegated to also rans. Now that Honda and Toyota are entrenched, they can dictate terms more and more, and they have both proven in the past that the have no qualms about doing so.
3. While this has little to do with unification, it does have to do with a successful series. Open wheel racing's sponsors have, for the most part, not been willing to employ their drivers and personalities in the promotion of their products. In fact, Fujifilm and Target seem to be the only ads I have seen showcasing their racing effort. See any Penske cars in a Mobil One or Sony or Bosch or Gatorade or Sirius ads? See any Newman-Haas cars in a PacifiCare or McDonald's or Puma or Dasani or Bosch ads? No. In this both series have failed to get their sponsors involved joint promotion.

I have tossed around the concept of a unification for a long time now. It may have to occur for open wheel racing to ever even be a shadow of its former self. Separate, neither series is going to capture back some of the market lost. Maybe together they won't be able to either. Indy was a success for the IRL, but it will go back to the status quo when they move on to other venues. Some, like Kansas will have good gates, others won't. CART continues to draw decent gates for their races, but is invisible on TV, where the real money is made. A compromise needs to be made to get both sides to work together. Just about the only person still involved in management that was involved from the beginniing of the split is Tony George. In the end, it will all come down to what he is willing to compromise if a unification will occur. If he is unwilling then it will never happen.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by Dov
What did Mario say that makes you not care what he thinks?

From the beginning of the split, Mario said "they didn't need Indy, and that it is just another race, blah, blah ,blah...."


and has been on the record that he has many problems with the "other side"...when in reality, there are problems on both sides...problems that he has not acknowledged "both ways"....

Since it's "just another race" and "no one needs" it, and he seems to have such a "one-sided" view...and more to the point, since he apparently is not willing to put his money where his mouth is to help his "beloved series" by forming a team and shelling out some cash to make OWRS more vialble in terms of race cars and competitors in their events...for these reasons, among others:

I couldn't care less what Mario has to say......

Talk is cheap....sure...he kept Road America alive for what will be two more years....

But I'd rather have committed people who actually have something at stake involved in the "Unification" if it is ever going to happen....

Not a windbag....

[f1manoz]

Pure speculation at the moment. Reunification is one thing, but not at the complete expense of one series.

[rustyfan]

Originally posted by f1manoz
Pure speculation at the moment. Reunification is one thing, but not at the complete expense of one series.

If a unification was made based on compromises from both sides, it wouldn't be on the expense of one series, but rather at the expense of two series' for the greater good.

[Liz]

Not a prayer as long as Tony George is involved in any way at all. You would not be able to keep him from making a Power Grab at the first opening, and having that hovering in the background would make people unwilling to commit.

The only way to bring about "unification" is to get Tony George completely out of the picture, forever and ever amen.

[Tim Northcutt]

The only way that will happen would be if Tony G. would die....and the Hulman Family would get out of motorsports...

I agree Liz....I don't see either one of those thiung happening

and I don't see unification happening, either....

[rustyfan]

Then again, if George hadn't been around, the Indianapolis 500 would have been "just another race" by now, or possibly even abandoned completely considering CART/OWRS take on ovals.

[jhansen]

Why exactly would Roger Penske, owner of a race team that was in the hunt, sit down during a rain delay (during the Indy 500) to discuss unification ideas with Mario Andretti? That's quite a rumor if you ask me. Certainly Roger had better things to do (ie. strategising with his drivers and team about thoughts to make their cars more competitive in the race) than sitting in his motorhome and having a pitty party about what things were like in the past.

As for unification, it needs to happen if open wheel racing will ever recover in the states. However, it's not the only solution. If one of the existing series died surely the survivor would also have the opportunity to pick up the pieces and rebuild.

[Dov]

Tim,
Mario sounds just like Roger Penske & Tony George except he's fighting for the CCWS! How many times did Penske and TG say that the IRL was coming to Canada and Mexico to take over all the street and road courses?! They also said that they were coming after LB, Road America and St. Pete......give me a break!

[macdaddy]

From Tim...
From the beginning of the split, Mario said "they didn't need Indy, and that it is just another race...

Funny, but I seem to recollect Mario saying the exact opposite. And always has. I have a videotaped interview with him, in which he states, "We need Indianapolis. We need to get these two sides back together."

[Tailwind]

Good post KC. Well thought out.

Tim, Indy being "just another oval" or "the race" was one of the central issues to the split. (Ego's being the primary issue.) Tony George of course saw Indy as the only thing that mattered and the rest of the season was just support. Mario saw the series as greater than the one race. Granted, the Indy 500 defined the series, but it is difficult to justify the expence of development for just one race.

For me, I listen to what Mario says because he hasn't changed his stated views or reversed his stance. He has been a big supporter of Champ Cars for a very long time. I wish he would get into team ownership, but that's his own choice. I remember him stating once in response to the question of team ownership, that he loved to drive and never really liked the business part of the sport. (Not an exact quote.) Some of the owners that were previously in Champ Cars have reversed their views or made statements we know to be untrue and so I have lost all respect for them.

In the end, I would like to see the two series unified into one, but I can't see it happening any time soon.

[camcartfan]

If you just spent millions of dollars in lawyer fees, cost of the series and money to keep the series running, would you consider unifying? This whole thing smells like ****!

[Flatspot]

This kind of cracks me up. I can see the scenario now. Mario invites Roger into his transporter to have a beer and see his new plasma TV.

Someone sees them go in and when they come out....SHAZAM...Top Secret-High Level- Reunification Meetings have occured conspiring to launch TG from power in his own playground because he's ruined the race that everyone used to love and now isn't worth a poop. It's now up to racing superheros Roger and Mario to swoop down and save the day.

Sorry for being cynical but this horse has been beaten from dead into a puree'. It ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

[macdaddy]

Someone sees them go in and when they come out....SHAZAM...Top Secret-High Level- Reunification Meetings have occured.

LOL!

[Snrub]

If some sort of meeting did take place I have to question what they expect to accomplish? TG has made it abundantly clear that he wants full control, why would he give that up and what evidence do we have to suggest that he would give that up?

The rest of this post has been editted.
Not only off-topic, but the language needed cleaning up as well.

No it wasn't off topic. I'm not mad, but did you read WHY I mentioned that stuff? In the past the two series have take to philisophically different approach to racing. Now they're similar.

[codename_47]

Originally posted by Flatspot
This kind of cracks me up. I can see the scenario now. Mario invites Roger into his transporter to have a beer and see his new plasma TV.

Someone sees them go in and when they come out....SHAZAM...Top Secret-High Level- Reunification Meetings have occured conspiring to launch TG from power in his own playground because he's ruined the race that everyone used to love and now isn't worth a poop. It's now up to racing superheros Roger and Mario to swoop down and save the day.

Sorry for being cynical but this horse has been beaten from dead into a puree'. It ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Probably better than the other type of rumour that could've been put out about two gentlemen spending a lot of time together in private!

But I agree...they were probably chatting about something genial, maybe the weather, and someone saw them and thought "hmmm...doings are a-happening" and put out this rumour...

Never gonna happen!

[mueber]

Kinda reminds me of when Rahal and Leo Mehl, among others, came to terms on unification only to have TG "change his mind" while the press release was being written.

This has as much cred as an Elvis sighting at a trailer park.

[Kicking-back]

Unification is vital.

But how to achieve that will need a lot of talking.

[zerO]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
From the beginning of the split, Mario said "they didn't need Indy, and that it is just another race, blah, blah ,blah...."


and has been on the record that he has many problems with the "other side"...when in reality, there are problems on both sides...problems that he has not acknowledged "both ways"....

Since it's "just another race" and "no one needs" it, and he seems to have such a "one-sided" view...and more to the point, since he apparently is not willing to put his money where his mouth is to help his "beloved series" by forming a team and shelling out some cash to make OWRS more vialble in terms of race cars and competitors in their events...for these reasons, among others:

I couldn't care less what Mario has to say......

Talk is cheap....sure...he kept Road America alive for what will be two more years....

But I'd rather have committed people who actually have something at stake involved in the "Unification" if it is ever going to happen....

Not a windbag....

100% agreed... Mario may be a "spokesperson" for Champ Car but in reality he's just an "employee" of Paul Newman and he surely doesn't do anything more than provide his image (ie: face & mouth)... and the Road America thingy may be over with even next year - nothing is guaranteed there and IRL wants in ?!... so, to sum it all up, listening to Mario's and/or Roger's spews is only good for the temporary entertainment that it provides... although both men may have certain dreams that some of us may agree with and that somehow could be achieved it doesn't mean that right off the bat the betting line should be at 2:1 ?!... according to what Forsythe and Kalkhoven have been saying and doing lately the betting line on the "unification" thingy should be more like 1000:1 ?!... and that underlines one thing: Mario isn't part of Champ Car management - Forsythe and Kalkhoven are ?!... welcome to reality (everybody) ?! (insert "idea" emoticon)

btw, Emmo has taken over the role of being CCWS "abassador" lately... Mario is running on his last legs...
zerO