ACO on safety changes at La Sarthe (merged)

[valedave]

Most of you will probably see this/have seen this anyway, but Graham Goodwin just posted up a brief interview with Pierre Fillon, with a number of interesting pieces of news:

https://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=18894

Interested to see what they come up with for this GPS system, looks promising!

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by valedave

Most of you will probably see this/have seen this anyway, but Graham Goodwin just posted up a brief interview with Pierre Fillon, with a number of interesting pieces of news:

https://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=18894

Interested to see what they come up with for this GPS system, looks promising!

If they've got good programmers on-hand and the teams cooperate, then I'm optimistic that we won't have any more Hindy-soapbox-safety-car-rants.

[Simmi]

Yep the safety car situation sounds encouraging. An infinitely better solution for the fans.

I'm assuming they will push the barrier back at the exit of Tetre Rouge (removing the tree).

[The Badger]

Compliments of Graham Goodwin :

Much more in the next 24 Hours following a catch-up session with Gerard Neveu and Pierre Fillon on the progress with the FIA WEC into 2014.

The picture is overwhelmingly positive with stable grids, increasing crowd numbers and media reach. There are though including some currently unresolved issues around Interlagos (assurances required on safety management) and Austin (where the discussions with the circuit and TUSC over the weekend’s timetable are clearly proving difficult)

Before then though there was a moment after the briefing to catch up with Pierre Fillon on the ACO’s review of safety after this year’s Le Mans 24 Hours which saw, of course, the fatal accident that befell Allan Simonsen but also saw an extraordinary number of lengthy safety car periods.

“We will announce very soon that there will be changes at Tertre Rouge and Corvette Corner but it should be remembered that we (the ACO) do not own the circuit, it is still, mainly, public road so those discussion have to be had with the local authority.

“They are very clear though that these changes need to be made to ensure that the Le Mans 24 Hours can continue as before.”

Perhaps even more significant though was Mr Fillon’s answer to the question about the number and length of Safety Car periods.

“Here we will have a surprise for you I think. I share the concerns about this and we have been working hard to find a better safety management solution.

“To make the change we want to move towards would require an in-car marshaling system, to neutralise not the whole circuit but simply a section of the circuit directly affected by an incident. That kind of system requires a high level of accuracy from a GPS based system and I hope and believe that this will be in place for 2014.”

That looks and feels like a higher tech version of the system that works well at the Nurburgring 24 Hours and come rather closer to the ‘Code 60’ system that Creventic operate with their range of endurance events.



I really like the idea of the safety car thing . But to change Tetre Rouge is nothing short of a knee jerk reaction to the sad accident of Alan Simonsen .

Why not just extend the outside Armco further down the road so if a car does get outta sgape the ere wont be the room for a massive accident .

And Please .... I don't intend to try to belittle Simonsen's accident or in any way cause insult ..... very sad .

And where is Corvette corner please ?

[CyberMotor]

So, is the in-car electronic solution being considered something similar to a pit-road speed limiter that can be invoked by the marshals externally at the scene of an accident? Sounds promising but how do you implement it if a group of cars are bunched together going full tilt? How do you slow them in perfect synchronization without causing an accident?

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by The Badger

And where is Corvette corner please ?

It's at the exit of the Porsche Curves.

[Mechanic Z]

Here's a track map that shows it, albeit not very clearly:

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

So, is the in-car electronic solution being considered something similar to a pit-road speed limiter that can be invoked by the marshals externally at the scene of an accident? Sounds promising but how do you implement it if a group of cars are bunched together going full tilt? How do you slow them in perfect synchronization without causing an accident?

It's a similar situation to Code 60 at the Dubai 24h.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Why not just extend the outside Armco further down the road so if a car does get outta sgape the ere wont be the room for a massive accident .

Because there is no room due to the trees (which caused the tragedy to begin with). They can't just move the the armco freely, especially considering that the ACO does not own the land there...they can't just act as they please as explained in the quotes.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Yep the safety car situation sounds encouraging. An infinitely better solution for the fans.

I'm assuming they will push the barrier back at the exit of Tetre Rouge (removing the tree).

Either that, or widen the corner on the inside and install something similar to SAFER barrier on the outside next to the trees.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

So, is the in-car electronic solution being considered something similar to a pit-road speed limiter that can be invoked by the marshals externally at the scene of an accident? Sounds promising but how do you implement it if a group of cars are bunched together going full tilt? How do you slow them in perfect synchronization without causing an accident?

Cut the fuel flow or ignition? It's not like a handbrake will be pulled.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

It's at the exit of the Porsche Curves.

Aaawww no ..... their slowly destroying the track .

[The Badger]

In the name of safety is going a bit far these day's . It's slowly destroying the sport . Now , I don't want to spark an argument here about it , but I'm tired of hearing that crap !

What safe about the bull run in Spain ..... or powerboat stuff or surfin with sharks or that sailing close to the ground with that wing contraption like Batman..... still people do it and go watch and what do people do at rally's ..... they stand on the outside of a corner and then gob off about safety ..... its in people's nature , and so it's the very nature of the sport that there is an element of danger .... that fin hasn't stopped some car's from going ballistic either .

I don't like that Le Man's is slowly getting sanitized ..... I remember the old pit's with big holes in the tarmac that help pool's of water when it rained , I was at the signal pit's when they were used , and witnessed Pareja's Brun Porsche give up the ghost , sitting over the pit's with your leg's dangleing 10 feet over the car's in the pit's , I remember the Dunlop Bridge straight down , never many big accident's down there but a monster accident with the NcNish/Audi ..... pretty soon everything will be a memory and sections of track will be abandoned and become nothing more than ghost's of their previous lives .

The car's are safer now than they ever were ..... leave the track alone !!!

Right ..... maybe I'm in for flak now .

Its the nature of the sport

[Acid09]

We don't even know about the nature of the changes so all the complaining seems to be a bit premature to say the least.

[seanyb505]

Definitely agree it's the nature of the sport. It's completely dangerous. Death's are always a sad event, and never to be treated lightly, but that danger gives the sport a dark allure. I like that this isn't curling or shuffleboard. Mastering something with so much power for destruction really separates the painfully mundane and the courageous.

It's like space travel. You can make the space craft safer, but you're still in space. It's still right up against the physical edge of what is possible.

I am slightly saddened by the neutering of the tracks; it seems future generations won't be able to experience the sport in its rawest form. If you're worried about cars going to fast, might I suggest curling, or a rousing game of shuffleboard?

Having said all that, we will just need to wait and see what actually happens to the track. I know in the virtual world, those two turns are incredibly rewarding to get right. I would hate to see them replaced by generic curves.

[The Badger]

It can only be bad in my eyes .

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Yep the safety car situation sounds encouraging. An infinitely better solution for the fans.

I'm assuming they will push the barrier back at the exit of Tetre Rouge (removing the tree).

Issue there is realistically they'll have to remove the whole stand of trees, and given the complexity involved in the ACO not owning that bit of track I suspect something along the lines of reprofiling the entrance and as others have suggested putting a higher tech barrier in place might be overall more likely.

[The Badger]

Well , they screwed up the sound , screwed up the aero , screwed up the track , screwed up the engine regs .

Ive spoken with several famous drivers at length . Thay all say leave the track as it is , big 7L engine's bigger rear wing , ground effect , and 1000HP ..... take out the chicanes on the Mulsanne .... that's 2 Le mans winner's who said that to me .

[Acid09]

I'm sorry but you sound like someone living in the past.

What you outlined isn't feasible anymore, no manufacturer would be interested in build such cars.

Sports car racing is on a high right now because the rules have relevance to today's problems that car makers face, it's not the 70s anymore.

2014 is shaping up to be an epic year for sports car racing, if that is "screwed up" than I gladly take it.

[Gingers4Justice]

Badger, you make it sound like the rules are designed to deliberately annoy the purists. That's not how it is.

If the ACO doesn't act on safety all the time, then do you think there will be a Le Mans 24 Hours for much longer? The race is run on public property after all.

Le Mans has to change with the times. The reason why it's the best race in the world still is that despite its many changes, the heart and spirit of the event never changes. To win Le Mans means the same thing it's always meant.

The reason why it's survived where the Targa Florio and the Mille Miglia haven't is its willingness to change with the times.

They've not destroyed the track at all. Despite the changes over the years, the vast majority of the layout has been the same for around 50 years, and the basic layout hasn't changed at all ever. The only times when the track has ever been close to being destroyed was when the Nazis bombed it and when they planned to build a purpose-built one in the '70s. We're not talking about either of those things.

Bit of a shame that TR gets modified, as I thought the new corner was better than the last version in terms of spectacle as it really was a sling shot onto the Mulsanne, and it was a great place to watch from at night. But things don't stay the same.

But that's just the (debatably) bad news. The good news is, we might not ever have to live with 5 hours of safety car again. This year, it felt more like the Le Mans 19 hours.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

So, is the in-car electronic solution being considered something similar to a pit-road speed limiter that can be invoked by the marshals externally at the scene of an accident? Sounds promising but how do you implement it if a group of cars are bunched together going full tilt? How do you slow them in perfect synchronization without causing an accident?

I'd expect it to be more like what F1 currently uses, where a notification comes on in the car, and GPS tracking is used to check whether drivers comply.

It's impossible to comment on the track changes without knowing what they actually intend to do, but something definitely has to be done at Tertre Rouge. Having trees up against the armco is not acceptable.

[Mal]

I dont like changes... but you cant have the situation where a crash barrier cant do its job because it is tight against a tree. That situation cannot and should not continue and therefore changes MUST be made.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by Mal

I dont like changes... but you cant have the situation where a crash barrier cant do its job because it is tight against a tree. That situation cannot and should not continue and therefore changes MUST be made.

Agreed. I haven't ever been to Le Mans, so I don't know about the character of that part of the track, but to ignore the problem would be irresponsible.
I absolutely hate it when racing changes, but safety does need to be addressed in that corner.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice
Le Mans has to change with the times. The reason why it's the best race in the world still is that despite its many changes, the heart and spirit of the event never changes. To win Le Mans means the same thing it's always meant.

Well said.

[dxk1]

Le Mans is truly the best sportscar event of the year and messing with the track always makes one pause and reflect. While I am not crazy about changing the character of the track, sometimes the changes have worked out for the best. Adding the Porsche curves has certainly been for the better. The one change that I think was very artificial and may have been handled better was adding those dopey chicanes on the Mulsanne. Certainly someone could have come up with a better solution to slow the cars down, but considering it is a public highway, maybe that was the best they could do. Either way, this new change after the Porsche curves may turn out to be a good change and it may work out for the better. Let's wait and see what they do and hope for the best.

DK

[Vepe]

Originally Posted by Mal

I dont like changes... but you cant have the situation where a crash barrier cant do its job because it is tight against a tree. That situation cannot and should not continue and therefore changes MUST be made.

Could it be done by having something like Tecpro wall there? Or maybe something like they have at Eau Rouge in Spa?