Ignorant question about carbon fibre on F1 cars

[Suzy]

Hi folks

This is going to be a silly question.

I was admiring this year's F1 cars and also aware of the number of accidents during races that have left carbon fibre strewn all across the race track - with some less-than-pleasant consequences for some drivers.

Is it possible that the amount of carbon fibre on the tracks is being increased now that the majority of the teams are running lots of extra little wings on their sidepods and on the tops of their cars. In an impact, these tend to break immediately into very small pieces. Would they be a danger to the driver in the cockpit by piercing him in the event of a major crash? The X-wings were banned for that reason weren't they (apart from being incredibly ugly)?

I'd attach a picture to show you what I'm blethering about but I can't find the option - I think it's been removed

[Adam43]

Yes all the extra bits (winglets, lfip ups, barge boards, etc...) do seem to be adding to the debris.

There are moves to have an outer coating of kevlar over all carbon fibre bodywork to stop it 'shattering' as much.

[Al Weyman]

Maybe a coveing of a thick vinyl like used in window bomb screens for the same reason may help. They make you tape headlights up for the same reasons.

[R59]

One X of tape per headlight is acceptable, yet have you ever seen headlights break in such a manner that the "X" of tape will hold it together.

Back to the thread, yes, I agree with you Suzy, I think the proliferation of extra bits around the extremities of the current crop of F1 cars has led to more bits of schrapnel laying around the track waiting to cause spectacular accidents caused by sudden tyre deflations.

The idea to coat them with Kevlar is a good one if it proves that it can hold the material together.

Perhaps the F1 circus needs to adopt the same "jet engine" blowers that Champ Car and IRL use to clear the tracks after an incident. But that means throwing the pace car more often, and that could change the outcome of the races making it less predictable.. hmmm there's another thread brewing here...

Rob.

[GolddustMini]

geat idea until you throw all the gravel in the gravel traps at the spectators...

[marcush.]

interestingly this seems to get written down into the regulations.
It is beyond me,why Teams don´t use Dyneema for these partsanyway...First it is lighter than carbon and second it is virtually unbreakable and it does not attract the ingress off water compared to Kevlar...
Well the Bigheads should know what they do....

[HiRich]

Originally posted by Suzy
Hi folks

This is going to be a silly question...

Would they be a danger to the driver in the cockpit by piercing him in the event of a major crash?

Not silly, very relevant and accurate. The major issue is tyre cutting, and as mentioned tests are underway with Kevlar coating. Whatever material is used it would be logical (and aesthetically better) to remove these parts whose secondary role appears to be to break off.

In terms of the specific issue of piercing, generally this would be unlikely. The shards created are small and very light and brittle. Ninety nine times out of 100 they would bounce off, break, or barely penetrate even the outer layer of a racesuit. However, whilst a slightly different situation (and one that would proabably have occured with metal) we should remember that it was the shaft of a suspension arm that killed Senna by exactly the mechanic you described.

[shiny side up!]

Originally posted by marcush.
interestingly this seems to get written down into the regulations.
It is beyond me,why Teams don´t use Dyneema for these partsanyway...First it is lighter than carbon and second it is virtually unbreakable and it does not attract the ingress off water compared to Kevlar...
Well the Bigheads should know what they do....

Or Spectra, a polyethelyne like Dyneema that is the same density but much stronger.

[autosportfan]

I carried out research on Dyneema for my PhD. It is good stuff, but not suitable for many F1 part. Most of the parts of an F1 car are a stiffness controlled design rather than strength design (pasrticularly in parts taking high compressive load eg push rod) and the specific stiffness of carbon is higher.
The only place you may see Dyneema is in the chassis or crash structures