Lime Rock

[Purist]

It kind of got buried in a slew of new stories at the top of the homepage on the ALMS site, but Lime Rock is getting some MAJOR work done, and the track reconfiguration for top-tier classes (like ALMS) leaves much to be desired I'd have to say.

I'm curious what the rest of you think about it.

[broadrun96]

Not having a screen big enough to really get to see the whole layout from the pdf that has in another thread I can't tell really well but it looks like some of the modifications will break up the track but is contrived somewhat and loses some of the tight small track with some high speeds that made lime rock what it was. But I think the track will benefit from the new cash and the surface probably needed the work. I guess we will see, I'm guessing the upgrades/rerouting will be done for 09 not this year?

[Purist]

I don't know, but the article says the track will be closed May 27-July 2 to complete the work. Make of that what you will.

[Hugewally]

All the changes are for this year, to be completed by the time the ALMS gets there in July.

[Speed-King]

If I understand this image right, the old configuration will be repaved as well and stay useable...
http://theracesite.com/index.cfm?tem...rm_photo_num=1

[deggis]

What's wrong with the old run off areas?

[Bernard Bram]

The marshalls took too long to find the cars?!

[tux]

Dont forget the aston martin that went off there after alot of recent rain and ended up getting stuck in a pool of water!

[johntt]

http://www.limerock.com/files/pdf/Lime_Rock_-_Basic.pdf

Heres a link to a PDF of the track. I like the fact that they're keeping the old track.

[mountainstar]

At least it stops the cars safely.

[thebear]

If you examine my Avatar carefully you will see that I am driving up the hill towards what is called turn 3 on the map, being furiously pursued by Art Riley in a Volvo P-1800.

Picture is from 21 OCT 1962.

[Hammerdown]

The new layout looks awful. It's a classic track and should stay that way or be modified with a bit more imagination. For such a short track to have that many chicanes it will be a nightmare. I can't imagine it will make things any safer for ALMS, probably just create a traffic jam. Sorry.

[Lusitano]

Originally Posted by tux

Dont forget the aston martin that went off there after alot of recent rain and ended up getting stuck in a pool of water!

Or the Viper in 2005.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by deggis

What's wrong with the old run off areas?

Nothing wrong there, it's called character.

I absolutely HATE what they are going to do to my home track. That back straight looks to be mighty confusing as well.

Here is a .jpg file of the new layouts.

Can you say 'sacrilege?'

I'll also get to see this in person, as I'll be going there for the ALMS race this year. Ugh.

[fieldodreams79]

the only thing they needed to do was to back the wall and the woods up a bit at the uphill after noname straight keep cars from flying into the trees. the chicane there is boring and for the birds.

i don't think i'll like the changes. don't know how for along they are, but they better hope for no rain between now and july in NE if they want to get it done. who knows, a hurricane may come through like it did when they were first building the place...washed away the lone bulldozer they were using (i think).

it looks silly...noname straight will actually be straight; for shame!

[dj4monie]

They are not neutering the track, if anything that makes it more of atrack to gain rhythm in. The corners flow alot better IMHO.

But the chicane at the top of the hill after "No Name" was poor idea from the start, take a page from ACO's notebook and shave down the hill, so car's won't get airborne.

It did need to be WIDEN as well and there was basically only two good passing points, those haven't changed with the modernizing of the configuration.

Pit Lane was the WORST on tour and you should have ashamed of yourselves, a bumpy, delapated, horrible mess!

Better run off area will improve racing as well. Face it the track was in serious need of improvements and modernizing.

Its not a Herman Tilke track so relax...

[Purist]

It sure looks like it's going to be a Tilke-Ring. Lap times for the prototypes are probably going to go from 45.xxx seconds to around a minute. This is a 1.53-miles road course by the way (1.54 with the chicane).

The new course has no real flow, and has eliminated all but one of the fast corners, and will emasculate that one with paved run-off (which isn't a good idea there because often the cars that go off there are thoroughly out of control); there should be consequences for mistakes, especially in high-speed corners. And yes, things go wrong that aren't driver error, but in racing "Them's the breaks", sometimes. The ACO didn't need to obliterate a signature of Le Mans ("the Hump"). They just needed to make the cars less pitch sensitive. Heck, the early Group C cars were perfectly capable of handling worse: Flugplatz and Pflanzgarten for instance.

The reconfiguration does nothing to help with overtaking really. Those straights are still too short to give much of any such opportunity. Having the track narrow and with the trees so near in places gave the track that park atmosphere. You push things back to far, you destroy that. That's a big part of why so many F1 tracks have no soul anymore. The narrowness and enclosing nature of Lime Rock also required some real self-restraint on the part of the drivers: something that has been sorely lacking in motor racing of late.

BTW, the bumps at Lime Rock are nothing compared to Sebring, so, why does this track get all the flak and Sebring doesn't? And the character argument holds no water since Lime Rock has been around since the 1950s as well.

[Zurbert82]

Lime Rocks track surface hasn't been paved in decades, plus the constant freeze/thaw cycles have buckled the asphalt creating a washboard like effect. The repave was inevitable. Many of the drivers, especially Allan McNish commented on this, plus the relative lack of safety.

"Lime Rock is definitely one of the more difficult circuits in America. It’s an extremely fast track, quite short, only 45-seconds per lap. But it has got a variety of types of corner and many different track surfaces. This means that the natural line you would take is not always the best one. In 2006, to be honest, it was also one of the more dangerous circuits we visited. But the American Le Mans Series were adament that the circuit had to upgrade safety. Apparently this has been completed over the winter. They’ve been doing a lot of work to make sure it comes up to the standards that we need for a modern LM P1 sportscar where speeds are very high."

The repaving, widening and modernization is great. The reconfiguration is OK. The only thing I don't like are the changes to the esses and West Bend. I think the uphill will be pretty cool, especially since they're opening up a spectator mound on the outside of the track at that section, and removing the crappy chicane. The repave/widening is IMO the best thing that could happen to Lime Rock, I just wish A Wilson would have done away with the changes to the Esses and West Bend. These changes should not change the character of Lime Rock, which is all about enjoying a beautiful summer day on a grassy hillside with one of the best racing series in the world at your feet.

[Purist]

I don't have a problem with the repaving itself. My comment was about how Lime Rock seems to get hauled over the coals for its surface when there are certainly other major circuits that need the same work, but don't get heck for the same shortcoming.

The change at "The Uphill" looks tighter, and thus worse, than the chicane. All three of those alterations involve sub-50mph corners by the looks of it. This isn't a big track at all, so those changes are going to have a MASSIVE affect.

I'm almost expecting that we'll see a new high for number of cars written off when ALMS visits. They've created three great new bottlenecks per lap, especially for multi-class races.

[Zurbert82]

Lime Rock still had an inordinant number of incidents in the old configuration, sometimes higher than the street circuits due to its bumpy, narrow, and quick nature. I agree with you on the possible issues with the new corners in the esses and west bend, but I foresee the new uphill somewhat as a reverse corkscrew, just not with the same amount of elevation change. We can only speculate until July 11th rolls around...

P.S. - The new slower corners will be great for me to practice my photography

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Zurbert82

Lime Rock still had an inordinant number of incidents in the old configuration, sometimes higher than the street circuits due to its bumpy, narrow, and quick nature. I agree with you on the possible issues with the new corners in the esses and west bend, but I foresee the new uphill somewhat as a reverse corkscrew, just not with the same amount of elevation change. We can only speculate until July 11th rolls around...

P.S. - The new slower corners will be great for me to practice my photography

I agree, I think overall the config change isn't that great, but overall, it will be an improvement and if Lime Rock wanted to stay on the schedule, its something they had to do.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

I agree, I think overall the config change isn't that great, but overall, it will be an improvement and if Lime Rock wanted to stay on the schedule, its something they had to do.

+1 As fans, we may not like this sort of thing, but if we want viable racing venues then we have to stomach it. Could have been worse.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by jhansen

+1 As fans, we may not like this sort of thing, but if we want viable racing venues then we have to stomach it. Could have been worse.

tis true and at least turn 7 is the same.

Originally Posted by Zurbert82

These changes should not change the character of Lime Rock......

we'll see.....

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Purist

BTW, the bumps at Lime Rock are nothing compared to Sebring, so, why does this track get all the flak and Sebring doesn't? And the character argument holds no water since Lime Rock has been around since the 1950s as well.

Lime Rock is small club kind of track, while Sebring is oldish too but it holds the biggest road race in US, so it doesn't need to change and I don't recall drivers complaining about lack of safety. Maybe Sebing is little bit saint too because it is one of the cradles of American motorsport. And obviously if you completely re-pave and flatten Sebring, then you can forget the whole track, because that's what makes it truly unique.

-

[Purist]

The biggest cause of incidents at Lime Rock is traffic interaction. That problem will, if anything, be made worse by adding those three complexes.

How is the configuration itself an improvement in any way, shape, or form DJ? The repaving on it's own would have been great, and a different pit entry and updated facilities are nice, but other than that, leave the place alone.

I'll say it out loud, if they decided the ALMS cars needed to run the motorbike chicane at Road America, I'd rather they not run at Road America. I'd prefer a road racing series not run at Sears Point if the alternative was using the IRL configuration of the course. And this "revamp" of Lime Rock takes so much from what the track was that it's not the same track reall, and none of you would propose ALMS run this if it was a new circuit being built.

In the end, there is some part of me that is fundamentally averse to what is being done here, and isn't going to shut the heck up about it, so trying to ignoring it isn't going to help.