Newbie Question Regarding Overalls

[Andysan]

Hi all,

I have just joined the BMMC having enjoyed my induction day of marshalling the Superleague at Donnington Park.

I am now looking at aquiring some overalls. I do not wish to skimp on quality or safety, but am a little confused over what "standard" of overalls i need.

Another forum member in a different thread have posted the following:

http://www.cjsafety.co.uk/products_v...=22&category=5
http://www.cjsafety.co.uk/products_v...e-Coverall-388

These don't seem different from the AWS overalls, except they are 531 standard instead of 533.

Can anyone explain what the standards mean please and what i need as a trainee?

Thanks,

Andy

[The STIG]

Strictly speaking, there is no restriciton on what you wear. The advice is a colour which does not clash with flags, and is preferably cotton/proban.

In that respect, both these overalls are fine I would have thought. However I'd focus on a good set of waterproofs first!

[Andysan]

Hi STIG,

Thanks for the reply - so the overalls aren't even mandatory then? Right, well i'll likely order some of those and take a look around for some waterproofs as you suggested.

Thanks.

[Eric Ridler]

Andysan

If you are a BMMC member check out our special offer on AWS overalls on the club website:
http://www.marshals.co.uk/equipment.php

Although Dickies overalls are cheaper they are basically a welders overall whereas the AWS are designed for Motor Sport.

Eric Ridler
BMMC National Regalia Officer

[maxheadroom]

Originally posted this way back in march a full explanation of the various standards

Full description of the standards, is below but in summary 533 seems to be just trying to burn it with new and washed samples and 531 is trying to burn new and samples washed 4 times, and pour molten metal on them and more usefully radiant heat transfer important whne you are standing near a fire.

My overalls are certified to EN531 and state will meet their certification for 200 washes!

These are as i have harped on about in previous posts made for the oil industry and are manufactred the ones i have are made by wenaas and pioneer. roots also make them and they are part of arco. Now these are around £50 new but as i have said before can often be found on brand new ebay as these are seem to be given out like smarties to contractors maine cam from their and cost me no more than £20 in total, in fact there is an orange set on their now in size 44!

EN533:1995 Protective clothing; Protection against heat and flame. Limited flame spread materials and material assemblies.
This standard only covers resistance of a material or assemblies of materials to flame spread, no other properties are considered. It is a basic standard which demonstrates that the fabric tested has flame resistant properties and gives an indication as to the degree of resistance.
The actual method of testing for flame spread is described in standard EN532. This test consists of the application for a fixed time (10 seconds) of a specific propane gas flame, placed horizontally at a fixed distance from the bottom of a vertically suspended strip of the fabric of fixed width (50mm). Once the fabric has been exposed to the flame it is observed for holes in the fabric, the formation of flaming debris and the spread of afterglow (continued burning without flame). The test specimen is then awarded an index level according to its performance with regard to the three properties mentioned above.
Index 1; After testing any remaining flame or any hole in the fabric formed by the flame during testing must not reach the edge of the fabric. There must be no flaming debris. Any afterglow (residual burning) must not spread beyond the area affected by the flame during the test.
Index 2; As index 1 but there most not be any holes in the fabric.
Index 3; As Index 2 but any flaming of the fabric after the flame source has been removed must cease within 2 seconds of the sources removal
EN532; will shortly be replaced by the very similar test ISO15025, which is already the standard test for things such as racing drivers clothing, as the main test for flame retardant properties.
For a fabric to be tested to EN533 it is tested both as received and then also after washing a number of times using the method laid down in standard ISO10528:1995 and dried according to standard ISO 6330:1984. The number of times the fabric has been washed and the temperature of washing is also included in any description of the results. The index level reached and the number of washes and temperature (C) at which the fabric has been washed are also shown below the heat and flame pictogram as no washes x temp used. 5x40 after the index therefore means that the sample tested after washing was washed 5 times at 40C.

Manufacturers will sometimes quote results as tested to EN532, quoting an index level only. This means that the fabric has been put through the flame test without washing and not through the full test method required by EN533.
EN 531:1995 Protective clothing; Protection against heat and flame.

This standard is a more comprehensive standard which includes tests for other properties In addition to testing for limited flame spread. The standard requires, in addition to testing for limited flame spread using EN532, that the fabric must also be tested for one or more of the following additional properties before it can be claimed to meet EN531: The rate at which convective heat passes through the fabric. The rate at which radiant heat passes through the fabric. How it reacts to having molten aluminium metal poured on it. How it reacts to having molten iron metal poured on it. The labelling of a garment meeting this standard is shown in the general section above.
When testing the fabric for limited flame spread under this standard using test method EN532 the washing requirements of the sample prior to testing are different from those stipulated for EN531. Here the fabric has to be washed only 5 times and dried according to ISO6330:1984. The fabric does not have to be washed prior to testing for other properties.
All performance levels claimed under this standard must include results of tests to EN532, this result must meet Index 3 as described for EN531above and is denoted as A in the list of results below the pictogram. As mentioned above, any product certified to EN531 standard must also have been tested for least one other of the properties listed. These properties are given the letters B, C, D, and E, each letter is followed by a number which indicates the level of performance that the fabric has achieved in the relevant test. Details of the tests used to measure these other properties are described below. If the relevant letter does not appear in the list under the pictogram on a garments label then no claim is made as to the fabric/garments ability to protect against that particular hazard. For example a fabric shown as achieving levels A B1 C1 h as only been tested for limited flame spread and items B and C below.
B Convective heat transfer as tested by method EN367. This involves placing a standard heat source (a flame) a fixed distance in front of the fabric and measuring the time it takes for the temperature on the other side of the fabric to go up by 24C. The equipment is designed to expose the sample to a heat rate of 81 KW per square metre. The temperature rise mentioned is effectively how long it would take before burns would be seen on any skin on the other side of the fabric. Levels ranging from 1 to 5 are awarded in accordance with the time it takes the temperature to rise the required amount, this level is represented as a number after the letter B below the pictogram
C Radiant heat transfer as tested by method EN366. This method is the same as EN367 except that the heat source is radiant (an electric fire bar) which exposes the sample to radiant heat at a rate of 20 KW per square metre. The results graded by levels ranging from 1 to 4. Both tests EN366 and EN367 have a minimum result below which a level cannot be awarded.
D and E; Resistance to molten aluminium and iron splash as tested by method EN373 and EN348. Theses tests involves placing a sample of the fabric to be tested at a steep angle to the horizontal with a sheet of simulated skin (P VC) underneath and pouring a known weight of molten metal over the fabric sample from a fixed height. The test is repeated with increasing weights of metal until the simulated skin shows distortion and/or metal adheres to the fabric. A test level is awarded according to the weight of metal poured when distortion occurs. Again, the level achieved is shown as a number after the letter D (for aluminium) or E (for Iron) below the pictogram.
EN470-1: 1995 Protective clothing for use in welding and allied processes.
This standard involves testing for limited flame spread using EN532 as in the tests above, the fabric must meet index 3 to pass.
Resistance to welding splash is measured using a test method which described as part of EN348 and is a variant of the methods used for EN531 parts D and E. This test involves placing a test specimen of fabric at a specified angle and then heating a specified type of welding rod at a specified distance above the fabric. A thermocouple is placed on the lower side of the fabric under the point where the drops of molten welding rod land on it. The thermocouple measures the increase in temperature of the underside of the fabric as the drops land on the upper surface. The pass level for the test is determined by the number of drops required to increase the temperature on the underside of the fabric by 40C.
This standard also requires the fabric to be tested for tear strength, tensile strength and dimensional stability. Typical work wear fabrics comfortably achieve the pass levels set for these properties

[Col_Rugby]

Thanks for that Max.

I forgotton how I used to get to sleep when I'm on a weird shift pattern.

Just remembered I used to read that post

[maxheadroom]

Glad you found it uesful

[Burnsie]

Andy... first of all welcome to Ten Tenths and the world of marshalling!

This thread (link here) should be of some help to you, but if you're only going to remember ONE piece of information from it, remember this one...

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Always remember, whatever level of fire-retardancy overalls give, the purpose of wearing fire-retardant clothing is to give a few more seconds to get away from a fire, not to go into a fire.

[Justin Moran]

Good advice from a good marshal, Dave is a stalwart of good sense and great advice! Another good analogy is "if it feels hot you are probably too close!" Worked for me a time or two so far!

[Andysan]

Wow,

First, thanks to all for the response - i regularly post on over a dozen forums from technology to motorsport and i've yet to come across one that has made me feel as welcome as the fellow Marshalls on 10 Tenths, so thanks indeed!

I'll likely buy the Dickies ones then - i've often had Dickies gear and felt the quality was good, and as i come to think of it the gear i borrowed on my induction was Dickies too.

Hope to put some names to some faces on Sunday at Donny!

[alexhall]

I've got a pair of overalls you can have if you like they're about one size too small for me - I'm 6ft and 14stone - you can try them if you want. Will be at Donny Sat & Sun.

[Andysan]

Thanks Alex, thats ever so decent of you - have sent you a PM!

[numbersix]

Don't skimp on buying good waterproofs by spending all your money on flame-resistant orange stuff which will most likely never be needed in anger. You are far more likely to get hypothermia from standing in damp kit on a windy day.

Focus on good, waterproof, warm boots. Then a stormproof coat (orange if you like). Then warm/waterproof headwear. Then waterproof overtrousers.
Overalls come last IMHO.

Concentrating on buying overalls that will keep a blow-torch at bay is like buying a special helmet to avoid falling meteors.

[HairyDJ]

Happy to concede that I've got wet more often then I've caught fire, but I know which I'd rather avoid most.

[aland]

I got my waterproofs from this mob http://www.bestinthecountry.co.uk/index.aspx just over £20 for the jacket and overtrousers. For boots being big footed (size 14) I prefer to try on boots as opposed to mail order, arco are as good as any but a wee bit expensive. you will also a want a couple pairs of welders gauntlets. also big piece box and flask

[Dunc]

I started with one of those welders boilersuits just over a year ago (doesn't time fly when you enjoy it) and then got one of those from AWS I am sure as a member of BMMC you get a discount but in my opinion little protection is better than no protection. As for waterproofs that has to be a priority along with good sturdy boots, I also recomend one of those fishing boxes to keep everything dry and also doubles as a seat when there are long breaks between races or during race stoppage outwith your post, also a spare pair of gloves welders gauntlets are good along with a flask and munchies

Dunc

[Shelagh]

But don't forget the good old standby of a sturdy bin liner to put your bag in if it rains.

Been marshalling for about 18 years now and that has never let me down because I use a rucksack as my "bag", taking a separate chair (but I am a flaggie.....)

I would like to point out, however, that I have lost track of the number of bin bags I've got through. Nor can I comment on quality of same. If it keeps things dry...........!