Plans for 'world engine'

[Gingers4Justice]

I don't like this plan from our old friends the FIA. The plan is to have a 'world engine' that will be used in several different categories: Formula One, GP2, F3, IRL, DTM, WTCC, Daytona Prototypes, and yes, and I'm sorry to infrom you, LMP1 and LMP2.

The engine is a four-cylinder 2000CC engine, which will be adapted, obviously, for different classes and categories, eg turbo charged versions for F1.

Now, I really hope that they bolt two of these engines together for the LMP racers, but that doesn't sound likely. The fact that manufacturers are even considering this baffles me, and they're talking of bringing in this for 2013 - by which time, many economists think the world recession would be, at large, at and end. So why?

Sorry, I don't have a link at the moment, just curious to hear your views.

[duke_toaster]

Unless the plans have changed somewhat, I think that it was only planned for F1, Formula Two (as in Super Formula Palmer Audi) and WRC. Most of those series you mentioned make their own rules.

I don't think that this plan will work, as one engine would not have that flexibility. However, perhaps four sets of rules for most of motorsport would work - a freeish formula with a power cap for F1, a new F2 and LMP1, 2.0 turbos for touring cars, possible a single seater formula and prototypes. 1.6 turbos for F3, prototypes again and smaller touring cars. Then one for dinky things.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Unless the plans have changed somewhat, I think that it was only planned for F1, Formula Two (as in Super Formula Palmer Audi) and WRC. Most of those series you mentioned make their own rules.

I don't think that this plan will work, as one engine would not have that flexibility. However, perhaps four sets of rules for most of motorsport would work - a freeish formula with a power cap for F1, a new F2 and LMP1, 2.0 turbos for touring cars, possible a single seater formula and prototypes. 1.6 turbos for F3, prototypes again and smaller touring cars. Then one for dinky things.

Yes they have, read this Week's AUTOSPORT; The IRL boss comfirmed an interest,

[Sarthe82]

Ill thought out and fatally flawed idea, one of the many reasons it won't work are that the public won't be fooled by it and neither will the manufacturers. Audi and Peugeot run diesels because it fits their road car profile, the same reason the prospect of a four cylinder Corvette is just laughable! Race fans (especially outside F1) are far too knowledgable to buy into it, it won't float, the end.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Unless the plans have changed somewhat, I think that it was only planned for F1, Formula Two (as in Super Formula Palmer Audi) and WRC. Most of those series you mentioned make their own rules.

I don't think that this plan will work, as one engine would not have that flexibility. However, perhaps four sets of rules for most of motorsport would work - a freeish formula with a power cap for F1, a new F2 and LMP1, 2.0 turbos for touring cars, possible a single seater formula and prototypes. 1.6 turbos for F3, prototypes again and smaller touring cars. Then one for dinky things.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Yes they have, read this Week's AUTOSPORT; The IRL boss comfirmed an interest,

You missed it by a month, its now May 1st not April.



L.P.

[ger80]

Well, why not. The engine is in line with 2011 LMP1 regulations - so maybe we will see some more manufactors in Le Mans if they have to develop & build a matching engine anyway. The ACO could still allow other engines like the diesels or the 3.4V8s

[The Badger]

Why would manufacturers want to be involved with that , thay can hardly brand it and claim a win !!!

Rubbish idea , imo .

[juicy sushi]

this is max trying to claim credit for something after the fact that he had nothing to do with.

the reality is that a lot of series are indeed converging around a similar set of engine rules (2.0 litres, and forced induction). that doesn't mean they will all have the same engine, but that there would be a lot of parallels between them. it would be a lot easier to run an engine program across f1, IndyCar, sports cars and the WRC...

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

You missed it by a month, its now May 1st not April.



L.P.

Read THIS WEEKS autosport - can't remember the page, but I'm a subscriber, it went into more detail. IT IS THIS WEEKS.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Why would manufacturers want to be involved with that , thay can hardly brand it and claim a win !!!

Rubbish idea , imo .

Well, both Mario Thiessen and Norbert Haug think its a great idea. I don't, I'm with you.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Read THIS WEEKS autosport - can't remember the page, but I'm a subscriber, it went into more detail. IT IS THIS WEEKS.

I don't care WHAT WEEK it is! The idea still rates as a stupid joke IMO.




L.P.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Read THIS WEEKS autosport - can't remember the page, but I'm a subscriber, it went into more detail. IT IS THIS WEEKS.

Sounds like an April fool

Did Autosport just tag on Sportscars to the list, or is there a source from the sportscar world. The ACO will define the engine regs for Le Mans and its series. Have they commented?

Whatever, at this stage, it seems like just one of those extreme ideas to get through a lesser version.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I don't care WHAT WEEK it is! The idea still rates as a stupid joke IMO.




L.P.

Oh dear. I've just go it!

Well, this topic was referred to in early April in Autosport too lol, so that confused me.

[TWK]

HORNDAWG has this one right. It's a terminally (hopefully) stupid idea. And Mario Thiesen thinks it's a good idea? Bull Roar. I suspect he was being momentarily "politically correct." BMW is very much a dissenter from such spec content in F1 (and elsewhere).

[deggis]

I don't know what was said in Autosport but originally Maxie revealed this master plan month ago in a WRC related press conference and it was widely reported.

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pre...onference.aspx

Q: Reiner Kuhn, Motorsport Aktuell, Switzerland: On one hand you speak about future technology in 2013, when the 1.6 turbo-charged engines will come. Is this too late? Everybody is talking about downsizing and smaller engines.

Mosley: Whatever we do has to fit with the future product range of the manufacturers. It’s no good doing something outside of that. We’re looking at the moment at a world engine for 2013. That’s to say an engine that would work in turbocharged form for F1 and then all the way down to naturally aspirated form for the lesser categories and in a turbocharged or naturally aspirated form for the World Rally Championship. It’s very early days. We are doing this in consultation with the manufacturers. In all probability, this will be 2013, that’s the timescale which with manufacturers tends to be relatively long. Therefore, if we do something at short notice it could cause problems. We will go to Super 2000 in 2011, and 2013 will be on us before we know it. There’s no question of us doing something between now and 2013, it’s simply too short a period. What will happen in 2013 if the idea of a world engine really starts to work remains to be seen.

What we would like to do is have an engine, take F1 for an example, where the base engine is not the subject of development; it’s the peripheral areas which are the subject of the development. An obvious area is KERS, that’s very much a peripheral area, also energy recovery from the exhaust and cooling systems, Also elements like direct injection and all sorts of others that we need to discuss with manufacturers. But our basic objective is that the money spent in motorsport on research and development should be relevant and useful to the car industry rather than a highly specialised area which has no relevance to anything else, and if we can - and I’m not sure we can - find a way of combining all forms of motorsport in that system then this would be useful because of the huge sums spent on motorsport. It’s not beyond our possibility that those sums could produce something useful for the future - even if it’s long time in the future.

ps. Porsche was ahead of FIA:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081210/FREE/812109984

(2nd last paragraph)

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Sarthe82

Ill thought out and fatally flawed idea, one of the many reasons it won't work are that the public won't be fooled by it and neither will the manufacturers. Audi and Peugeot run diesels because it fits their road car profile, the same reason the prospect of a four cylinder Corvette is just laughable! Race fans (especially outside F1) are far too knowledgable to buy into it, it won't float, the end.

The 'world engine' applys to single seaters, touring cars and prototypes, not GTs

The 2011 ACO engine rules mandate 2.0l turbos, maximum six cylinders as an option alongside 3.4l NA V8s and 3.7l twinturbo diesels. The world engine concept fits in with with their plans for turbo engines so it makes sense for them to go along with it but retain the NA and diesel options to preserve the technical diversity of LMPs.

The concept of a world engine could also be applied to P2, 2011 P2 engine rules have larger, lower revving 4.0l-4.5l engines. What I think is that two of the cylinder blocks could be put together to make a V8, which in various states of tune could be used in LMP2, V8 Supercar, A1GP, NASCAR, ARCA and Grand-Am.

[Joe Taylor]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Sounds like an April fool

Did Autosport just tag on Sportscars to the list, or is there a source from the sportscar world. The ACO will define the engine regs for Le Mans and its series. Have they commented?

I think it was Ulrich Baretsky's idea in the first place

[92scotland]

I don't see why the FIA will be changing the LMP engines when they do not write the regulations, that's the ACO's job. This is a stupid idea. Manufacturers join to prove their own technology, not a technology that is identical to everyone else on the grid and has been given to them by another outfit.

[Speed-King]

Just to make sure I get this right: Does he want one engine developed by an outside source like - let's say Zytek - for all manufacturers or does he want a common engine spec for a lot of series to which each manufacturer builds their own engine?

The later one would be kinda neat, if not on the scale suggested but maybe only for Touring Cars, Formula 3 and other junior formulae and rally.

[Dead-Eye]

I'd expect "talking to manufacturers" would be a very short conversation if it were the former. The way I interpret the reports it's about a common set of engine rules, not exactly the same engine for everyone.

[johntt]

The idea is that a number of series all have 2.0l inline 4s as their engine in various forms, NA, turbo, twinturbo etc.

The idea being that each manufacturer, from one basic engine block can make a racing engine for various different series.

So instead of having one or two manufacturers per series, we have lots of manufacturers in lots of different series

[GTfour]

Yeah great! Let's all have the same type of engines....just like in F1.

[juicy sushi]

^ i think you're misunderstanding. many manufacturers all want to use the same configuration (and this configuration is being discussed in a lot of different series).

it doesn't mean everyone uses the same engine. sports car racing obviously would have alternative options (just look at the rules for 2011). but there is a provision for this same engine architecture. and f1, indycar, the wrc and others are also thinking about the same thing.

this isn't about gt's, this would only be about prototypes, and the aco was there first since this type of engine has been in use in LMPs since 2001 or so...

[Nordic]

If he is just talking about a set of rules people can build engines too, then I dont think its that bad, As long as the ACO run there own engine rules alongside it.

However if he wants just one company to build them and then people bolt them into thier chassis then is rubbish and Its just a crap enough idea for it to go ahead.

When will we be rid of these cretins that run the sport now?

[knighty]

What an utterly stupid idea, what I probably suspect this is - the FIA have other ideas which teams are pushing back against, hence they float a real stupid idea to make the others look good.....they have been doing it for years in F1.

I could kinda see the idea working in F1, touring cars, F3 etc.....but not LMP......the cost of an engine is not made cheaper by say fewer cylinders.....its principally the development costs and time between re-builds.......a 2.0 turbo LMP1 engine will cost a fortune to develop and be 1 race only motor for sure....hardly a cost save.....hence the current format should be left well alone in the current financial climate.