New information on the new car

[johntt]

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...53#post2080153

- 2011 (or maybe 2012 )
- More than one supplier?
- 'Radically different from the last 30 years' - whatever that could mean

[JagtechOhio]

Hey John,

Thanks for posting that link...interesting read.

[nickyf1]

Front engined? Based on new Panoz LMP1??

[Aloysius]

Odd. I've been looking forward to a new car, but I had hoped it would be a step forward in technology, something that takes advantage of the aero revolutions of the last twenty years, with raised noses and barge boards and such. Something to makes the cars look modern. Instead I see a drawing of a car that was made absolute in 1959.

I have never threatened to stop watching any form of motorsport before, but front engines indycars just might do it.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Aloysius

Odd. I've been looking forward to a new car, but I had hoped it would be a step forward in technology, something that takes advantage of the aero revolutions of the last twenty years, with raised noses and barge boards and such. Something to makes the cars look modern. Instead I see a drawing of a car that was made absolute in 1959.

I have never threatened to stop watching any form of motorsport before, but front engines indycars just might do it.

Likewise, I was hoping they'd have a car closer to the DP01 Champ Car used to run... something that looks more like a modern open-wheel race car, but I think the series and a many of its fans want to keep it more oval centric, and the type of car that would do well there, and that teh traditional Indy fans would like probably looks nothing like a modern open-wheel road racer. It can't get much worse than the Dallara though... I hope.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Jay

Likewise, I was hoping they'd have a car closer to the DP01 Champ Car used to run... something that looks more like a modern open-wheel race car, but I think the series and a many of its fans want to keep it more oval centric, and the type of car that would do well there, and that teh traditional Indy fans would like probably looks nothing like a modern open-wheel road racer. It can't get much worse than the Dallara though... I hope.

I don't know why a car built to do well at both ovals and road courses automaticly can't be modern?

The way I see it IRL now has a pretty unique chans to set at new standard within open wheel racing since they're the only top level series that run both types of circuits.

Ovals + Road courses + Modern tech. Don't worry so much about traditions vs change.

[Tim Northcutt]

Don't assume anything based on those images from that site...

There are a lot of "old School" fans over there that would like to see front-engined cars come back....Those are renderings from someone who still has that itch.

Ain't gonna happen....

[johntt]

The way I see it is that people who want to see an all-oval open-wheel series with front engined cars should just watch USAC, which looks rather entertaining, especially on dirt

[icemachine]

Honda wants quick IRL rules decision
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76995

Honda has urged the Indy Racing League to decide on the IndyCar Series' future chassis and engine rules by the end of the year to make sure the changes are implemented for 2012.

"If we get into the first quarter of next year and it continues to draw out, we won't be able to do it for 2012," Berkman told this week's AUTOSPORT magazine.

"We need to know by Christmas so we can put it in place and budget for it. There's been some communication, but our last roundtable was some time ago. I would say it's time for us to have another one."

One of the main stumbling blocks in the earlier discussions was the specification of the engine. Honda wanted a V6 unit, while other manufacturers supported an in-line four-cylinder powerplant.

I would prefer to see a 4 cyl Turbo but if Honda won't support it, then the IRL could lose a major supporter and I doubt even VAG would provide the same level of support that Honda has. I'm not sure why Honda is against the 4cyl, as it should be a natural fit considering how many of their cars use that sort of unit.

[Keyfabe]

I dont know why they dont just use the Panoz champcar it was a good car and only used for one season.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by Keyfabe

I dont know why they dont just use the Panoz champcar it was a good car and only used for one season.

It would require major engineering changes to aero, suspension dynamics, etc., to run on ovals (according to a source who personally worked on that project for Panoz) and Panoz laid off a bunch of their technicians, engineers, etc. over the past year...They don't have the in-house personnel to do that work, nor the capital to sink into it to create the physical changes that would be needed to the existing chassis.

When the DP01 was created, it was also revealed that it would have taken Panoz 3 years of additional cars, parts and other bits supplied to teams just to break even on the project...They lost their shirts in the deal and took a pennies on the dollar settlement from Champ Car as part of CCWS's bankruptcy.

I loved the DP01, but the reality of our times is that it can't be revived...at least by Panoz at this time...

[icemachine]

I think it could be done for 2012 (if Panoz was interested)

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by icemachine

I think it could be done for 2012 (if Panoz was interested)

It is my understanding that Panoz/Elan Motorsports Technologies has reduced its workforce to the bare bones...the only person on-staff who could even remotely design these changes is underqualified to do so...that person is a mere draftsman...

Their aero people and engineers were all laid off...can't design or implement the proper changes that would be needed if you don't have the qualified personnel to do the job...

[Jay]

Tim's right and it's a shame, as the DP01, with the Ford XFE engine will go down as one of my favourite cars of all time. It looked great, provided great racing on circuits as tight as San Jose and was a bargain compared to the previous chassis Champ Car was running and even more so compared to the IRL's Dallaras. Sadly, I think we'll only be seeing these cars in Euroboss and other old-car series. Still, that doesn't mean the IRL couldn't make a similar looking car for their new chassis...or at least one that looks more like the old Lolas - those did ovals.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Jay

Tim's right and it's a shame, as the DP01, with the Ford XFE engine will go down as one of my favourite cars of all time. It looked great, provided great racing on circuits as tight as San Jose and was a bargain compared to the previous chassis Champ Car was running and even more so compared to the IRL's Dallaras. Sadly, I think we'll only be seeing these cars in Euroboss and other old-car series. Still, that doesn't mean the IRL couldn't make a similar looking car for their new chassis...or at least one that looks more like the old Lolas - those did ovals.

Remember when the Panoz was being designed and there was that exclusive spy shot of a DP-01 but featuring an airbox?

Well that car turned out to be the Formula Superleague car and judging on the races I've seen from it this season it races well and looks damn good too!
A little "what might have been..." for CC fans I guess.

Onto the next IRL car and, well I'm worried.
It has depressed me to hear of the recent problems with the IRL car on ovals and then having the IRL itself have a think about the issue and decide more downforce was the solution.

Until the IRL gets out of its "less power than grip" mindset and keeps chucking downforce at the cars, we'll never get a decent racing machine out of these people. We haven't had one in the 15 year history of the IRL and we won't in 2012 unless they drop their whole philosiphy.

If they went with something with a big grunty engine and gained the majority of its downforce from ground effect so it didn't disturb the airflow for the car behind too much then you'd get better racing and a spart of interest returning to the series.

Only time will tell which path they choose to go down, but as I've said, I won't hold my breath.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by codename_47

Remember when the Panoz was being designed and there was that exclusive spy shot of a DP-01 but featuring an airbox?

Well that car turned out to be the Formula Superleague car and judging on the races I've seen from it this season it races well and looks damn good too!
A little "what might have been..." for CC fans I guess.

I do... that's also a very nice car.

The problem is, there's always been a divide in American motorsports between those that want a more diversified series with a more road/street circuit focus and those that want a more oval track focus - with the later tending to want to make things 'the way it used to be'. That was used as justification for the original split (even if it was purely over one man's ego). Right now, the later bunch are controlling the show and likely want to map out the future of American open-wheel to look something like Indycar pre-CART. Unfortunately for them, any American open-wheel series will have to satisfy the fans of both forms of racing (e.g. IRL and Champ Car) if they want to survive in the long term. I'm not sure of those in charge of the IRL realise this... I have my doubts.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Jay

I do... that's also a very nice car.

The problem is, there's always been a divide in American motorsports between those that want a more diversified series with a more road/street circuit focus and those that want a more oval track focus - with the later tending to want to make things 'the way it used to be'. That was used as justification for the original split (even if it was purely over one man's ego). Right now, the later bunch are controlling the show and likely want to map out the future of American open-wheel to look something like Indycar pre-CART. Unfortunately for them, any American open-wheel series will have to satisfy the fans of both forms of racing (e.g. IRL and Champ Car) if they want to survive in the long term. I'm not sure of those in charge of the IRL realise this... I have my doubts.

You REALLY cannot plan for the future while having one (one and a half maybe!) eye on the past!

[codename_47]

Too late to edit now (but I hope the automerged doublepost thing goes through!) but as an addendum to my last post I have to also say you cannot make the best decisions for all of North American Open Wheel racing while focusing on the legacy of but one racetrack.

#edit It seems this forum doesn't do that, many apologies!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

When the DP01 was created, it was also revealed that it would have taken Panoz 3 years of additional cars, parts and other bits supplied to teams just to break even on the project...They lost their shirts in the deal and took a pennies on the dollar settlement from Champ Car as part of CCWS's bankruptcy.

I loved the DP01, but the reality of our times is that it can't be revived...at least by Panoz at this time...

That was the business model started by Reynard and frequently continues to this day. Sell the car at break even or slight loss and make up on the parts on the back end. Had champcar continued they probably would have been fine.

Overall it was a good car at the end of the day and it did the job, but it's already several years old so there is no future in reviving it.

In regards to a new car I think it's clear it's a necessity, but the problem is the money has run out and with the turmoil at ims, there seems to be no clarity as to what will happen. Probably one reason tony got the boot was he couldn't get manufacturers on board anymore to bankroll his series.