Did Kimi deserve a penalty?

F1Pete · 12 Jul 2009, 14:59 (Ref:2500175)

Kimi was under investigation after the race with the incident with Sutil. To me it didn't look bad at all and I call it a "racing" incident.

I truly believe Mark when he said he didn't even know Rubens was there when he explained what happened. Watching the initial replay, it almost looked intentional and I can see why he received a penalty. Coulthard did not see it that way at the time. However, DC did say KR should get a penalty for what he did.

How do u think the stewards would have handled it? I can see the Sutil camp out for Kimi's head. Maybe they will assist in buying out KR's contract.

the.cosmic.pope · 12 Jul 2009, 15:01 (Ref:2500177)

It wasn't even a racing incident. Kimi drove right to the edge of the circuit, was ahead of Sutil at the point of contact, and Sutil effectively just drove into the side of him.

I think Sutil drove brilliantly and deserved more than he got, but the accident was his own fault.

Pro Racer · 12 Jul 2009, 15:03 (Ref:2500178)

IMO if you penalise Webber you have to penalise Mr Mumbles, both racing incidents though but can't penalise 1 and not the other, atleast Rubens lived to fight another day, Adrian didn't.

brands · 12 Jul 2009, 15:12 (Ref:2500190)

I'm surprised Sutil wasn't given a penalty since the incident was the same as the Bourdais' clash with Massa last season in Japan.

strider · 12 Jul 2009, 15:19 (Ref:2500196)

Quote:

Originally Posted by the.cosmic.pope

It wasn't even a racing incident. Kimi drove right to the edge of the circuit, was ahead of Sutil at the point of contact, and Sutil effectively just drove into the side of him.

I think Sutil drove brilliantly and deserved more than he got, but the accident was his own fault.

Very fair summary. That first corner is quite evil, though, e.g. Lewis and Mark on the first lap.

**Adam43** · 12 Jul 2009, 15:59 (Ref:2500221)

The two incidents were different. One on the straight, one in the corner. One involved a driver who subsequently retired and we await the decision, the other could be satisfied in the race.

Mr V · 12 Jul 2009, 16:07 (Ref:2500228)

Kimi knew that Sutil was there for sure, his onboard show's the Force India to his right, maybe Kimi expected Sutil to move over to the right abit more?

Note to Sutil, next time your in a points paying position, steer clear of Kimi! Third time lucky next time aye?

Super Hans · 12 Jul 2009, 17:28 (Ref:2500270)

Racing incident, I thought. They took different lines through the corner, but arrived at the same place at the same time on exiting. I'm sure either could've conceded the corner and backed out, but I find it difficult to apportion blame either way.

Marbot · 12 Jul 2009, 17:34 (Ref:2500277)

Stewards say "racing incident".

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76937

**Adam43** · 12 Jul 2009, 17:48 (Ref:2500282)

I'm glad about that. We should want people to be side by side in corners, giving each other (just) enough room. If they are scared of penalties then it won't happen.

On the straight mind...

davyboy · 12 Jul 2009, 18:18 (Ref:2500294)

Frustrating as the Kimi/Sutil incident was for us all, apportioning blame would have been the wrong outcome. The Webber incident was a little more clear cut, but again very marginal in my opinion. We expect drivers to go wheel to wheel off the start and we also expect them to do it through corners. This is supposed to be motor racing after all. Incidents will happen and unless there's deliberate intent there, they should be put down to racing incidents.

strider · 12 Jul 2009, 20:45 (Ref:2500364)

The thing I find refreshing about this incident is that neither driver tried to blame the other; both said it was a racing incident and the Stewards accepted that. Sutil has earned major brownie points from me.

It was also a wise decision to investigate the incident after the race.

ukaskew · 12 Jul 2009, 20:46 (Ref:2500365)

More than anything I'm shocked they decided to leave the decision until after the race, more than enough time to make a fair assessment in my opinion, Webber's punishment was dished out fairly quickly.

davyboy · 12 Jul 2009, 20:47 (Ref:2500367)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Sutil has earned major brownie points from me.

If you look back through his entire career you'll see that this is typical of the guy. He's THE most decent driver in F1 at the moment and is deserving of a lot more. Until that incident he was holding his own and could have pulled off the drive of the season. '1F'

**Adam43** · 12 Jul 2009, 21:39 (Ref:2500395)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukaskew

More than anything I'm shocked they decided to leave the decision until after the race, more than enough time to make a fair assessment in my opinion, Webber's punishment was dished out fairly quickly.

I just couldn't believe it, in this day and age.

Mr V · 12 Jul 2009, 22:02 (Ref:2500400)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

It was also a wise decision to investigate the incident after the race.

Does anyone on this site know why one incident (Webber/Barrichello) is investigated during the race, while the other(Kimi/Sutil) was to be investigated after the race? Surely an incident is an incident?

mattt · 12 Jul 2009, 22:30 (Ref:2500417)

Shortly after it was announced it was being investigated didn't kimi retire from the race.

strider · 13 Jul 2009, 13:16 (Ref:2500831)

Yes, that's true, but I think there were at least two other factors, both of which have already been mentioned.

Th first is that it happened in the first corner, with one car exiting the pits and the other trying to stay ahead. so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by brands

I'm surprised Sutil wasn't given a penalty since the incident was the same as the Bourdais' clash with Massa last season in Japan.

Secondly Webber was penalised for the straight-line clash with Barrichello. He was given no penalty for the clash in turn one with Hamilton which destroyed Hamilton's race. It wasn't even mentioned.

Just for interest, matter-of-fact quote by Kimi:

Quote:

"The incident with Sutil? These things happen in racing, we spoke to one another and I think that he also sees it that way, as indeed did the Stewards."

VIVA GT · 13 Jul 2009, 15:38 (Ref:2500897)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Does anyone on this site know why one incident (Webber/Barrichello) is investigated during the race, while the other(Kimi/Sutil) was to be investigated after the race? Surely an incident is an incident?

I agree, despite what has been said, I don't understand why the two incidents were treated differently, it's yet another inconsistent decision by the stewards. (The fact that Kimi retired later in not significant either. When it was announced that the collision would be investigated after the race, Kimi was still running).

Super Hans · 13 Jul 2009, 15:48 (Ref:2500901)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Does anyone on this site know why one incident (Webber/Barrichello) is investigated during the race, while the other(Kimi/Sutil) was to be investigated after the race? Surely an incident is an incident?

It was easy to attribute blame in the first incident.

The latter was not so clear cut, so they probably decided to speak to the drivers involved before making a decision.

Clive · 14 Jul 2009, 11:51 (Ref:2501511)

Are the red cars still favoured then??

Alan Raine · 14 Jul 2009, 12:04 (Ref:2501520)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive

Are the red cars still favoured then??

No

JeremySmith · 14 Jul 2009, 12:30 (Ref:2501541)

Racing incident pure and simple...

Dutton · 14 Jul 2009, 22:49 (Ref:2501918)

I still don't see why it even got flagged for investigation in the first place. It just appeared, to me, to be one of those things when it happened. However, it seems that practically everything in F1 has to be seen as a potential crime.

**Born Racer** · 21 Jul 2009, 19:35 (Ref:2505679)

Quote:

"The incident with Sutil? These things happen in racing, we spoke to one another and I think that he also sees it that way, as indeed did the Stewards."

I'm not certain the Ferrari driver quotes shown on formula1.com actually come from the horses' mouths, as if you look at the 'selected driver quotes' bit after races, the Ferrari drivers often have a question at the start of their comments, e.g. 'The pitstop problem?' 'The bad start?', and there is a distinctly impressive display of English and lack of 'for sure'.

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