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10 Oct 2009, 23:21 (Ref:2558539) | #1 | |
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A Charlie Whiting 'yellow flag them all' button
Was initially unsure as to whether to prefix this thread as one of a tech issue or rules; it amounts to both, but one of the most important questions regarding it concerns its technical application.
As we saw in Suzuka, the question of slowing down sufficiently for yellow flags again surfaced. Drivers are usually a long way from 'being prepared to stop', which is what they're supposed to do for waved yellows, but can we be surprised they are not, given that they all do what they think they can just get away with, and what others do? Based on an idea in F1 '05 on the PS2 (), where you get a black and white flag appear on-screen if you cut a corner, thus forcing your car to slow for a determined amount of time, is there much against such an application in real-life F1 for yellow flags? Would it be dangerous to rely on an automatic system which slows all cars down when yellows are out, which would neutralise the race and slow all of them equally? Is it feasible? Admittedly, I haven't thought it through a great deal, but I thought it worth throwing out there, and any electronics experts may have a better idea whether this could work. |
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11 Oct 2009, 09:06 (Ref:2558853) | #2 | ||
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I think it might be dangerous to have a system that automatically slows cars down for a number of reasons.
Suzuka's incident should have seen a red flag (in a race the SC would have been brought out), but as the clock had hit zero they would have meant that lots of drivers wouldn't have been able to set times. |
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11 Oct 2009, 19:55 (Ref:2559152) | #3 | |
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Slowing them down, as in using the brakes? That would be very dangerous. Cutting the accelerator might be more feasible, but the problem I see with that is that it would just make the cars coast to the designated speed - and drivers would just rely on the system even if it might be necessary to slow down more quickly.
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12 Oct 2009, 09:30 (Ref:2559575) | #4 | ||
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Just backing off the accelerator gives over a G of deceleration in an F1 car I think - no need for brakes.
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12 Oct 2009, 09:38 (Ref:2559578) | #5 | ||
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Could be damned inconvenient though if it happens when the car is half way through a high speed bend and the demon driver is balancing it on the throttle...
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12 Oct 2009, 10:03 (Ref:2559586) | #6 | |
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It would have to be cutting the throttle. I suppose you could have a five-second warning on the 'dashboard' (i.e. steering wheel) or some such thing.
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12 Oct 2009, 10:17 (Ref:2559595) | #7 | ||
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How about the system only kicks in as they get into the yellow flag zone?
Maybe designated speed limits to stick to through these zones? Something a bit faster than pit lane speed limit... At least that would get them down to a maximum speed. |
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12 Oct 2009, 11:46 (Ref:2559679) | #8 | ||
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How about speed bumps rising out of the track surface..?
Selby |
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12 Oct 2009, 12:35 (Ref:2559734) | #9 | ||
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"Pits are closed, beware of rising bollards".
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12 Oct 2009, 13:08 (Ref:2559761) | #10 | |
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15 Oct 2009, 06:21 (Ref:2561742) | #11 | |
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Option A) Drivers maintain (given sector times to match by FIA) then restart with original gaps +/- 1 sec.
Option B) Tripe file restart shootout style. All lapped cars returned to the lead lap. Order of restart positions decided by random ballot. Then let the fans vote! |
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15 Oct 2009, 11:11 (Ref:2561862) | #12 | ||
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Would it not be an idea where a red flag comes out near the end of a session to just reset the timing for the restart so that there is enough time for a run? Then there's no excuse for not slowing for any flag and the red flag may be able to be used instead of trying to neutralise with a yellow. If you intend the cars to just slow done on the yellow, it's effectivly the same as a red flag as backing off destroys a qually lap.
Adding an extra minute or two may throw the telly times out that touch more, but what looks worse on the telly, a slight delay, or a global audience watching 1:45 ticking down pointlessly with no cars on track due to 'procedure'. Add a minute on, get 'em all out for a do or die blast! |
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15 Oct 2009, 12:21 (Ref:2561909) | #13 | ||
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I liked the old format of 1 flying lap for everybody. It is fair, because nobody ever will block you. It is nice for the viewer, because you don't miss anything. And it is very though on drivers, one mistake can get you at the back of the grid. But you can't blame anyone, but yourself.
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15 Oct 2009, 12:22 (Ref:2561910) | #14 | ||
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But I think these are the "best drivers in the World".
Negotiating traffic is just one of those things that we shouldn't just eradicate. It's a lottery, to a certain extent. Everyone will be effected by traffic at some point. Plus, it's also up to the teams to decide when to release their man. Selby |
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15 Oct 2009, 12:26 (Ref:2561913) | #15 | ||
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15 Oct 2009, 12:36 (Ref:2561918) | #16 | |||
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17 Oct 2009, 13:25 (Ref:2563223) | #17 | |||
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Quote:
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17 Oct 2009, 13:31 (Ref:2563230) | #18 | |||
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17 Oct 2009, 15:20 (Ref:2563269) | #19 | ||
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17 Oct 2009, 19:42 (Ref:2563344) | #20 | |
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I respect the differentiation you're making between 'unlucky' and 'unfair', but I think that's just semantics. I basically meant that at least when everyone runs together, you have the choice of when to go, even if there's an element of fortune in getting it right.
You also have the issue of rubber being laid down. |
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24 Oct 2009, 08:43 (Ref:2568508) | #21 | ||
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Alternatively, use the lo-tech solution, as they did that weekend. Punish the drivers who don't slow down. With all the telematry, it must be possible for the FIA to determine speed in the area under flags.
However, they do need to add time to sessions affected by red flags, as they are penalising drivers for someone elses mistake. BTW did anyone hear Jenson's BBC podcast after Szuka. I'm sure I heard him say it was safer to carry on at full speed rather than slow down. |
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26 Oct 2009, 23:14 (Ref:2570384) | #22 | |||
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29 Oct 2009, 21:33 (Ref:2572245) | #23 | ||
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Can't see the teams being willing to let their multi-million pound investments stand trackside, without that nice car to protect them.
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