Was the 00's a successful decade for Formula One?

Gingers4Justice · 1 Nov 2009, 17:58 (Ref:2573568)

The 6th decade of the Formula One World Championship is over, and it will be interesting to see how history looks upon it. It's the first decade I've lived the whole way through. But has it been a successful decade?

From what I gather from the past, the races are generally not as close. In my opionion, the cars do not look or sound as good as they used to. The old tracks are being ousted out in favour of government-funded hitech projects in the Middle East, circuits which are dull and souless with half-empty grandstands. The teams now have stupendously high budgets, making it nigh on impossible to start a team from scratch. On top of that, there has been allegations of spying, cheating, and there are extremely grey areas over the personal lives of some of the sport's leaders (

).

Yet the sport has never been more profitable, TV ratings have never been so high, and in the past few years at least, the championship has gone right down to the wire. The sport now reaches new markets; it really is a World Championship. The cars have never been so safe and a driver has not been killed in my lifetime.

So, how will this decade be seen, and can it be seen as successful?

**Born Racer** · 1 Nov 2009, 22:06 (Ref:2573744)

I still love Formula 1. I always will.

But it hasn't been successful in fixing the cars' ability to run close together- they've really had long enough to resolve this now. All decade people intermittently discuss this aspect.

Is it a truly world championship now? It has entered some new Asian markets, but we have gained and lost USA, and there is no Africa.

There have been some truly cracking seasons though, but that has always been the case.

It will be looked back on for a large period of Schumacher and his Ferrari team's dominance. I wonder whether it will be looked back on for scandal.

There have certainly been a few recently, but people tend to put that to the back of their minds and crack on with thinking about the racing. Perhaps the scandals that will be more remembered are those which impact directly or indirectly on something in the future, butterfly effect-style.

Yannick · 2 Nov 2009, 14:45 (Ref:2574170)

The 2000s surely was a successful decade for Formula One Management.
It will be looked back upon as the decade when racing in F1 was at its most expensive, as the era of Tilke tracks, as the era when the number of events outside of Europe really went up - and as the era of the heaviest manufacturer involvement.

It is also an era that had great champions (Schumacher, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Button), but lots of off-track controversy and politics, too.

It is also the decade in F1 with the best safety standards so far, even though there still were people of certain risk groups that got hurt or even died. (RIP)

And it has probably been the decade which has seen the highest number of rule changes, from awarding points for P7 and P8 finishers to the qualifying shootout format with its 3 heats, to the aero restrictions, the engine and gearbox preservation rule and now the banning of fuel stops.

ECW Dan Selby · 2 Nov 2009, 15:08 (Ref:2574180)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yannick

The 2000s surely was a successful decade for Formula One Management.
It will be looked back upon as the decade when racing in F1 was at its most expensive, as the era of Tilke tracks, as the era when the number of events outside of Europe really went up - and as the era of the heaviest manufacturer involvement.

It is also an era that had great champions (Schumacher, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Button), but lots of off-track controversy and politics, too.

It is also the decade in F1 with the best safety standards so far, even though there still were people of certain risk groups that got hurt or even died. (RIP)

And it has probably been the decade which has seen the highest number of rule changes, from awarding points for P7 and P8 finishers to the qualifying shootout format with its 3 heats, to the aero restrictions, the engine and gearbox preservation rule and now the banning of fuel stops.

Let's not forget the other formats of qualifying, too. The 1 lap option was always quite entertaining.

Selby

Gingers4Justice · 2 Nov 2009, 20:23 (Ref:2574387)

I'd also say that the cars aren't evolving as fast as they were.

The Ferrari which won Schumacher the World Championship in 2000 does not that different to the untrained eye to Jenson Button's Brawn.

Yet the Lotus 72 which won Rindt the championship in 1970 doesn't look remotely like 1979 Champion Shectker's Ferrari 312T4.

chillibowl · 2 Nov 2009, 20:48 (Ref:2574410)

for me the biggest change has been the reliability of the cars and subsequently the engines in the latter half of the decade. on its own, it is an amazing technical achievement in composite materials and engineering, however it has served to exacerbate the processional nature of races and has makes the closing stages of races far less enjoyable.

also the growth of the internet. i dont have to beg relatives to send me copies of UK newspapers and or wait 2-3 weeks for an issue of autosport to arrive at my local newsstand. now i get my news daily and as such my level of involvement has increased dramatically...but that too has made it less enjoyable.

its almost too difficult to even put into words what it used to be like (i feel like my dad talking about how the radio changed his world) but i almost feel that the 80's & 90's were exciting because i really had no idea what was going on...a race weekend was a watershed of new info, sights and sounds that sadly i dont get to experience anymore since the internet chips away at that unknown little by little every day.

Taprobane · 3 Nov 2009, 13:10 (Ref:2574865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I'd also say that the cars aren't evolving as fast as they were.

The Ferrari which won Schumacher the World Championship in 2000 does not that different to the untrained eye to Jenson Button's Brawn.

Yet the Lotus 72 which won Rindt the championship in 1970 doesn't look remotely like 1979 Champion Shectker's Ferrari 312T4.

But neither does the 1999 Mclaren look too different to the 1990 one...

ECW Dan Selby · 3 Nov 2009, 13:17 (Ref:2574867)

I guess so, but I think the point is technological advances are just going to become slower and slower in motorsport, or more specifically F1, for a number of reasons. For a start, the "jumps" are much smaller now. There's less to 'discover' as it were. Plus, the rules are much, much tighter.

Selby

jab · 4 Nov 2009, 11:04 (Ref:2575527)

The 2000s will be remembered as the decade of manufacturer dominance, something that came crashing to a halt at the end of the decade. Hopefully we can now move into a less corporate, greedy era with teams that are in it for the racing

nobster · 4 Nov 2009, 11:47 (Ref:2575551)

Totally agree with jab there, let's go back to the old times where the garagists took on the factory Ferrari team.

ECW Dan Selby · 4 Nov 2009, 13:08 (Ref:2575595)

Isn't that strange how literally it's come to a crashing holt night on the end?

Selby

jab · 4 Nov 2009, 13:18 (Ref:2575606)

Indeed. A decade that began with Stewart becoming Jag, BMW returning with Williams and Renault announcing its deal to buy Renault ends with 3 manufacturers departing in the space of 11 months

Gingers4Justice · 4 Nov 2009, 21:10 (Ref:2575882)

I still think it no bad thing to have a good couple of manufacturers though. Although a few times we've come dangerously close to having a sportscar formula for single seaters. At one point Mosley was banging on about the cars having production engines and "having a strong link with road cars."

That's not what F1 is for, and if we're going to have several manufacturers they should run to F1 rules and not vice versa.

Andrew2001 · 7 Nov 2009, 10:00 (Ref:2577513)

The 00s was no different to the 90s. There was cheating then (Benetton - well, allegations anyway

), there was a ban on technology to try and slow the cars down (end of 1992), there was not enough overtaking, according to many, Williams completely dominated for most of the 90s, as Ferrari did in 00s, for better or for worse, YES, F1 has nevr been better.
Although the regs have gotten out of hand. As one said, the blatant adaptation of the rules to make the cars appear to be similar in terms of speed is just rediculous. In the 70s and 80s there were all sorts of ideas being put out on the race track, some worked, and many didn't. That is the ESSENCE of F1, come on, it is the technology and the application of that technology at the top level, with guys nervey enough to race these things. There are far less variables in getting a quick lap out of a car currently, even as recently as 1999, there was lots of mistakes to be made around a hot lap during qualifying and the cars were literally seperated by seconds, not half a second forthe whoel field.

Back to basics, and at least keep the cars as attractive as they once were.

Graz · 7 Nov 2009, 18:02 (Ref:2577732)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

The 6th decade of the Formula One World Championship is over, and it will be interesting to see how history looks upon it. It's the first decade I've lived the whole way through. But has it been a successful decade?

From what I gather from the past, the races are generally not as close. In my opionion, the cars do not look or sound as good as they used to. The old tracks are being ousted out in favour of government-funded hitech projects in the Middle East, circuits which are dull and souless with half-empty grandstands. The teams now have stupendously high budgets, making it nigh on impossible to start a team from scratch. On top of that, there has been allegations of spying, cheating, and there are extremely grey areas over the personal lives of some of the sport's leaders (

).

Yet the sport has never been more profitable, TV ratings have never been so high, and in the past few years at least, the championship has gone right down to the wire. The sport now reaches new markets; it really is a World Championship. The cars have never been so safe and a driver has not been killed in my lifetime.

So, how will this decade be seen, and can it be seen as successful?

I think you've put it very well and from both sides, excellent post.

My view would be purely from the heart; I don't like the cars or circuits compared with before. Regardless of what others might say, the racing in general over the course of a season just isn't as good. I think F1 has become overly expensive and quite frankly, extravagant, wasteful and vulgar in so many ways (e.g. the night racing and the amount of money spent and energy wasted to light the track).

The cars are too efficient - e.g. Eau Rouge used to be 5th gear and if you were mad, would attempt it in 6th on your hot qualy lap. Now any monkey can go through it flat in top. This aero efficiency has directly contributed to the dull races we have - if cars aren't sliding about and if the car is meeting it's limits before the drivers, of course the racing will be dull.

I miss V12 and V10 engines, hell I miss turbo engines.

I miss Murray Walker. The classic commentators in all sports are dropping away. Time will tell if the new guys coming after will ultimately become classic in their own right. Talking directly of F1, Brundle might, Legard definitely not. I can't believe chumps like him get to go to every GP and probably get paid quite a bit of money - and yet he still hasn't a clue about it and talks cobblers.

Circuits and venues are becoming more and more dull. Herman bloody Tilke. Come on on, let's freshen things up a bit and give others a go. Let's also go to Portimao where proof is that new circuits with character can still be built. However, there are quick corners there with overtaking opportunities so it doesn't fit the bill for F1 I guess.

The drivers are so PR speak driven so to the average fan, there are no characters because they are not allowed say anything. I personally think they are not as swashbuckling as previous drivers - they seem to constantly voice concern about corners and run off where the likelihood of injury is very low (yet oddly they love Eau Rouge where if you go off there, good luck). Some of these corners were fine a couple fo years ago, so what's the problem now? I'm not saying drivers should be going out to get hurt, far from it but the combinations of slow corners or kilometers of run off does detract from the skill and spectacle.

To me, the element of danger is a critical part of F1 and is part of what seperates the great from the mere good - take a corner where an off could be tricky shall we say. A driver can choose how much risk he should take through there and those higher risk takers will be quicker than those less prepared to take the same risk, for instance getting a quicker corner exit so being able to maintain that speed advantage down the straight which equals overtaking opportunity (not withstanding the point about aero above where part of the problem is that cars can't follow each other closely, even when the following car is significantly quicker).

I certainly do not want to see people hurt or killed but neither do I want to see these ridiculous corners where there is no penalty for making a hash of it. The only way to make F1 and all motorsport totally safe, is not to do it at all.

F1 like all sport becomes less and less of a sport and more about a business where the top few earn all the money. The racing is secondary, once the marketing hype sucks in the fans, the bottom line is all that matters.

Will I continue to watch it? Of course but whereas I used to countdown to each race, the winter break was a killer and the world stopped for the two hours of every GP, now I tend to watch until the first pit stops and then fleetingly thereafter until the end of the 'race.'.

So in answer to the question about has F1 had a successful decade? It depends on one's viewpoint. I'm sure certain people's bank balances will tell them it's been successful. I'm sure some fans think it's been great. For me, I enjoy F1 much less than 10 years ago and before, so personally for me it has not been succesful as it's driven me somewhat away from it.

The world changes, things change, what can you do. I'm an old fogey before my time.

Marbot · 7 Nov 2009, 18:53 (Ref:2577750)

Yes, the cars are too efficient, but that's the nature of F1 isn't it.

With regard to safety, should the cars and tracks be as safe as possible or as safe as necessary ? Subject for another thread maybe.

Graz · 7 Nov 2009, 23:18 (Ref:2577888)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Yes, the cars are too efficient, but that's the nature of F1 isn't it.

With regard to safety, should the cars and tracks be as safe as possible or as safe as necessary ? Subject for another thread maybe.

Yeah very good question. It depends how one defines as safe as possible. As safe as possible is 100% so what's the only way to have 100% safety?

Off the top of my head, I'm probably in the safe as necessary camp for many reasons (one of which being the amount of money these guys are paid!).

However, more the subject for another thread as you say.

JeremySmith · 7 Nov 2009, 23:21 (Ref:2577889)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graz

It depends how one defines as safe as possible. As safe as possible is 100% so what's the only way to have 100% safety?

Don't go racing..

fourWheelDrift · 8 Nov 2009, 05:25 (Ref:2577983)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Don't go racing..

At the risk of sounding like a reactionery old fogey when I first started watching F1 cars that left the track rarely got back to it in one piece if at all, if they did it was usually at the expense of losing at least one place. As a direct result the drama and tension lasted race long even when the racing wasn't that close. I'm not suggesting we should have drivers hurt on a regular basis but the current run offs we have at most circuits are a joke and the high level of activity in the stewards room is at least partly a consequence of this.

miatanut · 8 Nov 2009, 05:57 (Ref:2577991)

The 00's started with traction control cars and the last couple years the drivers have had to do it, which made it a lot more interesting for me. I'm happy to see the trend toward the cars looking like porcupines, with all the aero appendages gone. Seeing all the new faces on the podium and in the front couple rows after qualifying has been very enjoyable. The championship going down to the last turn in the last race last year!

On the down side, the rules remain too narrow. Four wheels, rear wheel drive, engines regulated down to # of cylinders, "V" angle, and bore spacing. Come on! This is supposed to be F1! Experimenting with funky new ideas in search of an advantage.

Armco Bender · 8 Nov 2009, 08:25 (Ref:2578060)

I must have slept therough the 00's,did I miss anything?....

Now the 1970's that was something else....

Marbot · 8 Nov 2009, 11:38 (Ref:2578200)

Quote:

Originally Posted by miatanut

On the down side, the rules remain too narrow. Four wheels, rear wheel drive, engines regulated down to # of cylinders, "V" angle, and bore spacing. Come on! This is supposed to be F1! Experimenting with funky new ideas in search of an advantage.

One word: Cost

Satorian · 8 Nov 2009, 11:48 (Ref:2578213)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

At the risk of sounding like a reactionery old fogey when I first started watching F1 cars that left the track rarely got back to it in one piece if at all, if they did it was usually at the expense of losing at least one place. As a direct result the drama and tension lasted race long even when the racing wasn't that close. I'm not suggesting we should have drivers hurt on a regular basis but the current run offs we have at most circuits are a joke and the high level of activity in the stewards room is at least partly a consequence of this.

I'd like to see a GPS-based speed limit. Leave the track, crawl back at 40 kph.

mattt · 8 Nov 2009, 13:13 (Ref:2578251)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satorian

I'd like to see a GPS-based speed limit. Leave the track, crawl back at 40 kph.

The main issue with that would be when they got back onto the track if there was a car coming round at race speed.

JeremySmith · 8 Nov 2009, 14:15 (Ref:2578271)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

At the risk of sounding like a reactionery old fogey when I first started watching F1 cars that left the track rarely got back to it in one piece if at all, if they did it was usually at the expense of losing at least one place. As a direct result the drama and tension lasted race long even when the racing wasn't that close. I'm not suggesting we should have drivers hurt on a regular basis but the current run offs we have at most circuits are a joke and the high level of activity in the stewards room is at least partly a consequence of this.

I far preferred the gravel traps as well, The tarmac run offs are safer they say? (not so sure myself) but there is no penalty for going off the race track at all these days..