Lancia Monte Carlo - advice sought

Colin McKay · 11 Nov 2009, 22:18 (Ref:2580406)

Ladies & gents,

My son is thinking of dipping his toe in the water next year and rather fancies the Lancia Beta/Monte Carlo for 70's roadsports or similar. Can anyone give us some pointers, ie preppers & possibilities?

banbury · 11 Nov 2009, 22:44 (Ref:2580431)

The Monte Carlo makes a great car in the 70`s Roadsports.Class D2.

There is one racing at the moment.

Probably the best preparer is Richard Thorne near Reading.He has built several for racing,and built my old Beta Coupe.

They can be made to go very well,they are only hampered by their 13" Wheels.(although there is a rule change in the offing).

Get one built,I`d love to see another out with us.

Colin McKay · 12 Nov 2009, 12:29 (Ref:2580729)

I know nothing about these cars, but he's doing some research. Is there a particular version to look out for? I think the 80's cars had better brakes but presumably not eligible, is that right? Any preference over spyder or coupe?

Mike Bell · 12 Nov 2009, 13:29 (Ref:2580765)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

I know nothing about these cars, but he's doing some research. Is there a particular version to look out for? I think the 80's cars had better brakes but presumably not eligible, is that right? Any preference over spyder or coupe?

From memory the brake problems on series 1 cars were due to them being over servo'd and locking lightly weighted fronts. Should not be a problem for racing- I think removing or disconnecting servo usually sorted it! Would guess the coupe is lighter and more rigid than targa. At the NEC Classic show last nov was a MC which had been rebuilt 'in the the spirit of' the 037 rally Lancias. It looked awesome!

banbury · 12 Nov 2009, 13:36 (Ref:2580773)

Both Coupes and Spyder have been raced.For 70`s Roadsports it has to be reg prior to 31/12/79.

It does have to run standard brakes(pads are free).

Have a look at the regs on the HSCC website,but if you have any questions just ask.

I`d love to see another Monte Carlo out with us.

tatounet · 12 Nov 2009, 13:37 (Ref:2580774)

There is one rallying verry well in belgium ( near Spa )
The owner is Jean-Pierre Vandewauver.
The setup of the car is near to the perfection.
I Know he works also ass technical advisor
http://www.vande.be/

regards

andy97 · 12 Nov 2009, 14:19 (Ref:2580793)

A Lancia Beta Monte Carlo would also be eligible for the new "Super 70s" class of CSCC Future Classics. 40 min races with a compulsory pit stop and good VfM. A couple of Beta Coupes have race in similar CSCC races in the past. The CSCC regs are less retrictive than HSCC 70s Roadsports, but a Monte Carlo built to HSCC regs would still be eligible and competitive.

Have a look at the CSCC web site Future Classics page for regs, although the specifics of Super 70s is not up yet. In general terms the regs will be for all cars up to 1981 with engine sizes up to 2 litre and the remainder of the Future Classics regs will apply.

Therre's the carrot of a 1 hour race at Spa in June or July.

LAK · 17 Nov 2009, 13:05 (Ref:2583493)

Hi there. Hubby and I have owned and raced a Lancia Beta Coupe since 1997 - we now have a couple of other cars (!!) but this was our first racer and has been (and is) a fantastic race car. The car won the HSCC 70's Roadsports championship with Richard Thorne at the helm in 1995 and my hubby repeated the championship win in 1998, also coming runner up in 1997 and 1999. For the last couple of years we have raced with the CSCC in Future Classics and in particular race the car annually at Spa and the 'Ring.

Never driven a Monte but know a couple of people who raced them and brakes seem to be the biggest issue even after speaking to the specialists.

The Coupe is a fantastic all rounder and expecially good in the rain (being FWD) and in long distance events. A few years ago it started to be less competitive in 70's with the GT6's and Jensons beating it on horsepower and lower weight however it can run with many of the Alfa's.

Be aware that the major draw back to the Beta is the single carb which you have to run in 70's - this really limits the car from being a class winner these days as you just can't eek out the power. Also at 990 kg it isn't light. However it has great disk brakes all round, superb gearbox, wonderful handling and to be honest it just puts a massive grin on my face whenever I drive it, especially at the 'Ring where it runs flat out most of the time.

Please PM me if you want any more info. Be aware though that I'm a Lancia nut (also race a Fulvia Sport and an Aurelia B20 and have another Fulvia Sport and Thema stationwagon in our garage) so I maybe a teeny bit biased...

Colin McKay · 18 Nov 2009, 00:13 (Ref:2583877)

Thanks to all for the feedback. Having looked at the spec more closely (and brakes apart) would the Scorpion be a better bet? Would we be allowed to remove the emissions kit to improve breathing in 70's roadsports for example?

banbury · 18 Nov 2009, 09:18 (Ref:2584007)

What`s the real difference between the Scorpion and the UK Monte?

Look at the regs on the website,they are very clear as to what you are allowed to do.

PM me if you want more info.

Colin McKay · 18 Nov 2009, 21:37 (Ref:2584557)

Someone told me that the Scorpion ran different carburation, twins I think? so probably more amenable to a bit of fiddling, but of course choked by emissions kit in standard form.

GrahamH · 19 Nov 2009, 15:00 (Ref:2585124)

The Monte Carlo would be a good car for 70s Roadsports or CSCC. The handling would make up for a (relative) lack of power in 70s, I think. There have been several Monte Carlos out in 70s over the years (I raced against three) and they can be made to go very well.

As for the Scorpion, my recollection is that it's a US version of the Monte Carlo. I doubt any US version of a European car has more power, or potential for more power, based on it's induction system. Usually the reverse is the case with sealed 'emissions friendly' carbs.

My advice would be to buy one already built, if you possibly can. Don't worry about the last 2 bhp until you're faster than the previous driver.

banbury · 19 Nov 2009, 21:24 (Ref:2585355)

Good advice!

I`ve bought one ready built racecar(Beta Coupe),I`ve had 2 built from road cars Alfetta GTV,and an Alfa Sud Sprint.When you get to the figure you think it will cost,multiply it by at least 3 and you will have a rough figure.
Always go ready built if you can.

morninggents · 19 Nov 2009, 21:58 (Ref:2585372)

Quote:

Originally Posted by banbury

Good advice!

I`ve bought one ready built racecar(Beta Coupe),I`ve had 2 built from road cars Alfetta GTV,and an Alfa Sud Sprint.When you get to the figure you think it will cost,multiply it by at least 3 and you will have a rough figure.
Always go ready built if you can.

....and it's item number 1 in Sod's Law that it will always take twice the time you envisage .......

GrahamH · 20 Nov 2009, 09:24 (Ref:2585626)

Re: The Scorpion, I found this on the Internet, so it must be true:

"The Lancia Scorpion is derived from the Lancia Montecarlo. The car is so called because the name Montecarlo was already used in America by Chevrolet. The Scorpion differs from the Montecarlo in a number of ways:

- Smaller engine (1800 cc) because the 2 liter unit in the Montecarlo had not passed smog tests.
- Different bumper (fender) configuration to meet American crash tests.
Pop-up headlights

Unlike the Montecarlo, only one production run of Scorpions was made. A total of 1801 were produced between 1976 and 1977."

Banbury is right re: costs of building cars: I built one (Alfa GTV) and it cost more than my Fulvia Coupe and Alfa 145 (both bought ready built) put together!

phoenix · 22 Nov 2009, 12:42 (Ref:2587128)

There is a lot of information about the Montecarlo - if you know where to look! Her's a couple of links for a start....

http://forzavx.com/lancia/monte/spec.shtml
http://www.lanciabetamontecarlo.nl/hoofd.html
http://www.montecarlo.org.uk/discus/...tml?1249727238

The Montecarlo Consortium has members who do/have raced and is a good source of information. In fact a chap called Ian McKay (I think that's the correct spelling) raced one in the 1990s in the Autoitalia champonship.

The trick with the engine is to aim for torque rather than out and out BHP - as the single, twin choke carb will restrict this. The brake problems can be resolved by disconnecting the servo (as mentioned) and doing a balancing act with pad material front and rear.

Keep us posted!

phoenix · 22 Nov 2009, 17:11 (Ref:2587253)

I've just found this - which may be of interest to you:

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...l#SlideFrame_1

GrahamH · 22 Nov 2009, 18:40 (Ref:2587283)

I remember racing against that car in 70s Roadsports. I think it was owned by a Paul Garside at the time. It seemed reasonably well sorted, but only raced two or three times. It could keep up with the Alfa 105 series GTVs, so you could have some fun racing with that car.

phoenix · 23 Nov 2009, 10:52 (Ref:2587723)

Andrew Cliffe at Omicron is anothr contct you should have in your address book:

http://www.omicron.uk.com/montecarlo/july2002.html

Colin McKay · 24 Nov 2009, 11:38 (Ref:2588360)

Thank you everyone, this has all been most helpful. I have passed all the relevant info on to my son so now it's up to him. I expect my wallet will be invited to join the team very soon

andrewc · 24 Nov 2009, 12:31 (Ref:2588386)

Scorpion is a heavier American spec Beta Montecarlo with a 1800 engine rather than a 2 litre. Had pop up headlamps. Not really viable.

Good traction off the line and good handling, but comparatively heavy. They are single carb as standard and although they can be jetted, are not as competitive as they could be. A twin carb manifold is available for Weber DCOE, Dellorto DHLA and another version for Weber DCNFs.

I am building one myself. Very non standard!

I also have a spare shell available and a complete S1 Spider project car which is complete.

Paul Garside: He had a yellow one which he raced a couple of times. Sadly Paul passed away not so long ago. Car was sold to Jim Blades and I thought I saw an advert for it recently. Edit: The one on racecarsdirect is the ex-Paul Garside car.

Mine was raced a long time ago by Alan Hope in the 750MC after being inspired by a series of articles on prepping and racing a Montecarlo in Fast Car magazine. I have these as a PDF if you would like. The car was raced in the Intermarque series where more mods were permitted. Can anyone shed any light on race results for my car. Fast Car articles were 1989 so would be around or shortly after then.

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