New Series For 2011 - Discussion from Calendars

[simon drabble]

I read in some mag that Julius is starting a competitor for cloth cap and goldies but oldies... interesting times. Johngee maybe Julius is a good fit with you guys - he has a very similar ethos (so long as there is a drink in it for him!!) as Top Hat was a definite clubbie event when it started

[john ruston]

MRL involved in mid 70's-mid 80's Saloon car series.
Donington Festival original dates Sat/Mon now Fri/Sun.
Changes in Pre War Sports this year for the better.
Going to be a busy May Bank Holiday

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by john ruston

MRL involved in mid 70's-mid 80's Saloon car series.

Masters Racing Limited? What series?

Originally Posted by john ruston

Donington Festival original dates Sat/Mon now Fri/Sun.

Will update calendar.

Originally Posted by john ruston

Changes in Pre War Sports this year for the better.
Going to be a busy May Bank Holiday

you can say that again.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I read in some mag that Julius is starting a competitor for cloth cap and goldies but oldies... interesting times. Johngee maybe Julius is a good fit with you guys - he has a very similar ethos

There's a lot going on at the moment Not only is there this new HRDC initiative from Julius but also the new series from Motor Racing Legends for Group 1 & 2/Group A cars 1977-85.
Personally, I think it's pathetic that everyone plots away with cards close to their chest when by putting egos and self interest to one side and co-operating, the end product could be so much more than the sum of its' parts and in the competitors interest
We're far less concerned from the 360MRC point of view - we have, I believe, our niche market for endurance racing and not looking to make profits out of our customers....... although, not making a loss would be good too

[john ruston]

MRL has always stood for Motor Racing Legends to the wider Historic Racing community..

GTSCC-Flavian and Vanessa Marcais

Why should Julius join Masters who will probably have a tough time this year?

Wants to do his own thing as does Carol.

It a tough thing organising these race programmes and seems very little return for any of these professional groups.

To many Meetings and ego's are being put before sensible planning on behalf of the customer.

Two examples.Peter Auto Spa against Brands that has had its place on calender for years.See Red VSCC two weeks after Donington Festival.Both nonsense.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by john ruston

MRL has always stood for Motor Racing Legends to the wider Historic Racing community..

And of course when using acronyms its always polite to explain them to the audience. Good business sense really. Now I'm sure I know what you mean.

GTSCC-Flavian and Vanessa Marcais

Originally Posted by john ruston

Why should Julius join Masters who will probably have a tough time this year?

Wants to do his own thing as does Carol.

It a tough thing organising these race programmes and seems very little return for any of these professional groups.

To many Meetings and ego's are being put before sensible planning on behalf of the customer.

Two examples.Peter Auto Spa against Brands that has had its place on calender for years.See Red VSCC two weeks after Donington Festival.Both nonsense.

[simon drabble]

I actually meant 360 not Masters!! Out of interest are Sierras and M3s within mid 80's cut off?

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by johngee

...We're far less concerned from the 360MRC point of view - we have, I believe, our niche market for endurance racing and not looking to make profits out of our customers....... although, not making a loss would be good too

AMEN THAT!!

Dont think we have played our hands close to our chest at all ...told everyone what it was...told everyone when it was and how much it was.

Just to confirm, Sierra cosworths can come to 360 Simon....M3's can come too !

[Peter Mallett]

This page gives a good idea of the cars in 1985.

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...85%20Cars.html

The years '77 to 85 means that Rovers, Volvos, fit for Group A but not the Cosworth or M3 Beemer. Group 1 is pretty much as is but Group 2 loses the GAA Mk 1 Capri, Escort RS 1600 and the Batmobiles.

I'm referring to the proposed Gp1/2/A series mentioned by John R.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I actually meant 360 not Masters!! Out of interest are Sierras and M3s within mid 80's cut off?

Simon - the cut off is 31/12/89 - draw your own conclusions oh, of course, you wouldn't have actually read the regulations would you?

.....and yes, I knew what you meant !

[Pretty Vacant]

Originally Posted by johngee

There's a lot going on at the moment Not only is there this new HRDC initiative from Julius but also the new series from Motor Racing Legends for Group 1 & 2/Group A cars 1977-85.
Personally, I think it's pathetic that everyone plots away with cards close to their chest when by putting egos and self interest to one side and co-operating, the end product could be so much more than the sum of its' parts and in the competitors interest
We're far less concerned from the 360MRC point of view - we have, I believe, our niche market for endurance racing and not looking to make profits out of our customers....... although, not making a loss would be good too

Quite agree John, all seems to be watering down further what is already there and then even smaller grids.
Reading the article in Autosport about Julius new attempt it seems quite an attack on Ron and eveyone at Masters, for no real gain? Why if people are complaining about numbers on grids, would they then join a new untried series which could well also have small grids?
The more everyone talks and puts the egos and emotions away, then us competitors can have a far easier time in the short summer we have to play!

On a seperate note, interesting news about Christopher Tate leaving. Does this mean he will surface somewhere else in another series or just more TV work?

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by johngee

There's a lot going on at the moment Not only is there this new HRDC initiative from Julius but also the new series from Motor Racing Legends for Group 1 & 2/Group A cars 1977-85.
Personally, I think it's pathetic that everyone plots away with cards close to their chest when by putting egos and self interest to one side and co-operating, the end product could be so much more than the sum of its' parts and in the competitors interest
We're far less concerned from the 360MRC point of view - we have, I believe, our niche market for endurance racing and not looking to make profits out of our customers....... although, not making a loss would be good too

They are feeling the water on the 'other' motorsport site and I have let my feeling be known there, there simply is no need for this new thing I don't get it why wont the MSA clamp down on this, more thinned out grids its just pathetic.

[morninggents]

Well thank goodness we still have the non-profit and democratic clubs such as HSCC and CTCRC and, of course, 360.

[Peter Mallett]

Just looking at this proposed Gp1/2/A series and considering the years it encompasses. The later Gp2 cars (post '76) are really not competitive with the earlier cars such as the Batmobiles etc. because they weren't as modified. Its one reason why Dave thomas sold his Big Blue Capri. So, if there are cars out there (Holman Blackburn's etc.) that qualify, it certainly won't impact any existing grids because they currently aren't running anyway.

The Group A cars are out there but not running to spec, if at all. I don't believe Classic Thunder has any running with it. So again this may drag a few of them out to play.

The Group 1 cars are a different issue. There are championships for them such as CTCRC Gp 1 (Post Historics are too early), which have always tended to draw the entries rather than Masters SoS. So it may be possible that Masters has concluded that running its SoS for Group 1 cars is not achieving its aim. Therefore they may have struck a deal with Motor Racing Legends (MRL) to let them open the new series. Just my logic, not necessarily the fact.

However if that is the case then the point about dilution may not really apply here. There's nowhere for GpA or the later Gp 2 cars anyway.

On the subject of Julius, it may be that Masters sees Top Hat as a subsidiary series since it appears to be concentrating on major "festival" style events, and of course more in mainland Europe. Under those circumstance perhaps they've decided to let Julius take it back.

Rather interestingly, Masters hasn't published its calendar as yet. Although Press releases have gone to members with the major dates on them.

[Mike Bell]

Agree Peter about the Gp2 / A period- was thinking about it last night. The cars that are available are all earlier or later. And if you read Legends blurb they want original racers not cars built more recently. Admirable aim but achievable?

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

Interesting.

Certainly Les Blackburn's car is available (60k Euro). Dave T's was sold but it is an original Gp1 Spice shell modified to Gp2. Simon Light had the last Gp2 Capri to race in the ETC (at Donington 1983) but when I last saw it, it had a 4l engine IIRC. There are at least two original TWR Rovers one of which is being prepped to original spec for a European championship by Ken C. The other has a 4.3l engine (I stand to be corrected). There is an original TWR Gp1 Rover in Ireland.

There is also the only Gp2 SD1 Rover which is still around and of course the last of the Broadspeed Gp2 Dolomites is in the UK.

Wouldn't mind betting there's a few original RS2000s around too.

But yes, unless someone is willing to bring them out to play I'd suggest the aim is laudable but somewhat niave.

[simon drabble]

Terry and I are keen to get his Dolly out more if there is more endurance races at a reasonable price.
When he took it out in Masters last year he was a little surprised how far Group 1 had moved since he last brought it out in the 90's!!

[Peter Mallett]

As I said we need to see what there are about. If Masters is dropping Gp1 then this Legends thing may be the only "endurance" series available (excluding 360). Agree re the development of the cars though. Trouble is the Pinto was a stalwart for many years in many championships, its development moved on in leaps and bounds. My old Essex is pretty much stuck where it is, (although I know of a few cars running GAA bottom ends which is definitely not Gp1). Similarly the Dolly engine kind of stopped in 1975 and there's been nothing developed for it since.

[Al Weyman]

What the hell is an original saloon race car someone please tell me. If I had an original with an alloy cage and changed it for steel is that original? If I rolled an original into a ball and reshelled it and all that was left was a chassis plate and vin number that I carefully cut out and stitch on to the new shell is that original? If I change the engine, gearbox, back axle, brakes is that original? We are not talking about old sports racers he we are talking humble saloon based race cars, put one hard into the barrier its dead as simple as that and it has to be reshelled and in my opinion is no longer original, the world has gone mad!

[Al Weyman]

BTW I think my cars are as original as any of those, they came of the production line as they did so what the difference the rest of it is pure nostalga we are not talking about numbers matching concours road cars all these old cars were built to race and got damaged in the process. I have an original at home in a state of disrepair and because the whole car is built around a tubular space frame that could be driven around with no bodywork I consider that an original but a monoque saloon car that has been reshelled at any time cannot surely by any stretch of the imagination be concidered original. BTW a Dolly Sprint won the Post Historic Championship this year there were no less than five out last year with a 6th joining next season don't write them off they will definitely give a Gp1 Pinto Escort a run for its money.

[simon drabble]

where can I find information on the new saloon series?

[Peter Mallett]

Al,

I think most of us agree with you re the originality thing. Likewise in Post Historic tune a Dolly Sprint is as good as an Escort RS2000 (it's the carbs thing) which is why in 1975 Gp1 moved on.

[Al Weyman]

Steve Cripps in RS2000 Mk 2 won the Group 1 Peter so maybe you have a point there. BTW we had a 40 minute season closer race that went down well and I think there may be plans for a repeat.

[zefarelly]

Well said Peter

If something like Top Hat circa 2003-2006 restarts I'll be there.

Masters have never been genuinely interested in clubbie tin top racing

[johngee]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

where can I find information on the new saloon series?

Which one Simon?