[Rules] Formula 1 to clampdown team radio?

[Pingguest]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115776

Formula One's popularity is declining and the stakeholders are in a real panic, arent they?

[Pontlieue]

Seriously, how do they think it's going to work? Teams can introduce codes for that sort of things, or return to using pit signs.

Also, there's no clear division into preformance-related and safety-related messages. "Look after your tires" could be performance related, but the team could claim it is a safety-related message to prevent punctures.

If they want to do something about it, they should rather limit the data transmission between the car and the team.

[GTRMagic]

Maybe the previous mandate to only communicate in English will be revived too

[VIVA GT]

Teams will still devise way for communicating with the drivers. This weekend Mercedes told one of their drivers (I can't remember which one) to use "The H-P Switch to tell us how your tyres are". Presumably instead of doing it by radio so no-one else would know.
It'll just lead to further complications (and distractions?) for the drivers...

[Paradise City]

I've said it a few times now. They should get rid of team to driver radio communications altogether. Just play it by pitboard.

Keep a channel open for race control for safety purposes perhaps. But bar that leave the driver alone save to watch the pitboard.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I've said it a few times now. They should get rid of team to driver radio communications altogether. Just play it by pitboard.

Keep a channel open for race control for safety purposes perhaps. But bar that leave the driver alone save to watch the pitboard.

If team-to-driver communication should be banned 'altogether', why should pit board be retained?

[S griffin]

Just ban telemetry. That will bring the driver into strategy more.

[JacobP]

I don't think banning radio is really going to help much the poor teams. What's going to happen with the pit board is that, due to the serious constraint on the information displayed, the pit board will introduce a lot more "randomness" into the races of both the poor and rich teams. Then we could potentially see the weird outcomes where a top driver pits at a wrong time or doesn't push as hard as he should, sometimes resulting in an underdog stepping on podium or even winning a race.

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Just ban telemetry. That will bring the driver into strategy more.

If telemetry is banned, we could sometimes see half of the field DNF due to technical problems because of the incredible complexity of the cars. Banning telemetry would also look silly when even the junior levels of motorsports are using it.

I think banning the radio would be good enough to curb the advantages of telemetry because it would be very problematic to deliver a message "Nico, your brakes are overheating" or "don't use 5th gear".

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

If team-to-driver communication should be banned 'altogether', why should pit board be retained?

Axe that if you like. Telemetry could go too. Junior categories could follow suit - save them money. At least save them money insofar as the machinery doesn't break down, through the lack of awareness that would otherwise be provided by telemetry..

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Axe that if you like. Telemetry could go too. Junior categories could follow suit - save them money. At least save them money insofar as the machinery doesn't break down, through the lack of awareness that would otherwise be provided by telemetry..

I never argued in favour of retaining telemetry because Formula One's feeder series have telemetry. In fact, the arguments against telemetry are quite reasonable, although it quite inconsistent to ban telemetry one hand and mandating tyre changes on the other. If one argues that a driver should race 'unaided', he should do the entire race distance without being serviced by his team.

The reason I would like telemetry to stay, is that Formula One is still considered and presented as a technical showcae, a racing series with cutting-edge technology. This one of the reason why I am not against re-legalizing active suspension and driver aids, such as traction control and anti-lock braking systems.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

The reason I would like telemetry to stay, is that Formula One is still considered and presented as a technical showcae, a racing series with cutting-edge technology. This one of the reason why I am not against re-legalizing active suspension and driver aids, such as traction control and anti-lock braking systems.

I don't see what's cutting edge about the technology. There's no innovation with such restrictive Power Unit and Chassis rules. Apart from Merc's split turbo, there's nothing on the grid we haven't seen before either in F1 or in other categories. Development has been painfully slow and in some areas, like tires, the sport has gone backwards. How has F1 allowed itself to race with chewing gum tires when other categories run slick intermediates and tires which can last 700km? It's meant to be the pinnacle.

This points to a wider issue, which is that current F1 does not capture the public's imagination like it once did. F1 cars used to go through rapid development to push the boundaries of speed - now they seem to go through a painstakingly slow and irrelevant development to push the boundaries of exceptionally restrictive rules.

Because the cars aren't spectacular, and because there's little that's 'special' about them, the drivers aren't perceived as heroes. I'm sure the detail of pit-to-car radio only adds to the perception that they are puppets.

I can't remember the last time I've enjoyed the racing so much though - I actually think the team bosses should shut up about trying to change the formula, just for a few months at least. The immediate change needs to come in how the sport deals with social media but in terms of the sport itself, this is how it is going to be for a few years. It's not perfect, but it's very watchable - let's just try to enjoy it for what it is, and promote the product as it is, rather than continually picking holes in it.

There is a worrying lack of faith in the product from a number of stakeholders at the minute.

[S griffin]

I think that some of the unpredictability is lost if cars are too reliable. Look at Canada for proof of a great race. That was down to unreliability

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I just think that of all aspects of Formula 1 that need changing, this is far from the most desperate.

The 2014 season has produced some of the best wheel-to-wheel action in years. How does this help to improve it, yet alone preserve it? It's another pointless change from the FIA who time and time again are just missing the point. Go out and ask young people, such as myself, why they aren't watching F1, and you'll find out that the answer "because of the team radio" is really not the case. Pay TV is probably going to be a much larger reason.

If Formula 1 cared about popularity so much, allow the masses to actually watch the bloody thing, instead of dilute with a lot of gimmicks that achieve very little other than aggravating the few fans it has left. Yes, it's a business, but the reason why several businesses have been so successful is because they can sell themselves. None of the recent changes helps F1's stance in that aspect. Frankly, it's pathetic.

[Sodemo]

They should ban "start maps" too. Why do they allow a starting "system" that mimics traction control in all but name?

[Paradise City]

Let me put this out there: F1 is on an unavoidable decline as we settle down just after the dawn of the internet and information age. Not a terminal decline but a palpable decline and there's nothing that can be done to reverse this decline. We are left therefore with accepting it and consolidating rather than frantically using a defibrillator on an aging but fundamentally healthy patient in a futile attempt to reverse the aging process.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Let me put this out there: F1 is on an unavoidable decline as we settle down just after the dawn of the internet and information age. Not a terminal decline but a palpable decline and there's nothing that can be done to reverse this decline. We are left therefore with accepting it and consolidating rather than frantically using a defibrillator on an aging but fundamentally healthy patient in a futile attempt to reverse the aging process.

decline in what sense? in terms of less viewers or in less similarity to what it was like in the past or both?

unsurprisingly i have thoughts on both reasons

[Tucky]

If viewership keeps declining then it certainly would be a terminal decline. Why would companies invest in a sport with low viewing figures? If nothing's done then F1 may in fact come to an end, however hard it is to believe (More likely it would just be rebranded and start afresh). Viewing figures is the most important part in F1 because that's where the money stems from, whether you like it or not. Practically all decisions in F1 such as rule changes are just there to address that problem.

Sodemo has already mentioned banning start maps and I completely agree. Hamilton's start in Italy was slow because of the start map not really working i believe, but if all the teams didn't it then the starts would be even more exciting plus the possibility of cars further back being able to jump more cars with a good start.

[Richard C]

I am not sure I agree with the problem they are trying to solve. As best as I can read that Autosport article, it is because fans are turned off by feedback from the pit to the driver during the race. It doesn't bother me, but maybe it is a big issue that I am oblivious to?

I have a polar opposite view on telemetry. I think it should generally be one way (car to pit), but don't limit it or the communication back to the driver. And in fact, require the teams to expose a large amount of that data to the viewers. Give viewers free access to online apps that show this telemetry either in raw form, or better yet via slick real time metrics (visualizations) that would be easy for casual viewers to understand, digest and appreciate. Why should we be limited to graphics on the screen (as picked by the producers) or pay to view apps that may or may not include telemetry, limited telemetry or just basic timing and scoring data that is no more revolutionary than what was available decades ago (granted not to the viewer, but lap and segment times is not a new concept and something better than that can be done).

Nothing would be more interesting than the ability view and examine moment to moment teammate battles or battles for position between multiple cars. And then there is the on track drama of an "incident". Why should we have to deal with the "we will view the telemetry after the race" to see what happened? For example someone tags someone in the rear going into a corner. Did the driver in front brake earlier than he had in the previous few laps, or did the driver in the rear just get caught out and brake too late? Why read about the details hours or days later, lets see those graphics right now and in near real time? I am not saying that this also has to result in a nanny punishment scenario either. Having more data and more specifically "timely" data might reduce the number of inappropriate punishments via stewards.

I know teams consider this to be proprietary and secret data, but suck it up. Its about entertainment as much as it is about sport. Share the data. Everyone will be on equal footing. It might also expose more about drivers than they care, but again, they are big boys in the big league. Deal with it.

I think it is also the future for sports. Real time tracking and metrics. I don't really follow US football (gridiron) but they are going to be testing out a location tracking system this season for each player on the field. Chips in the shoulder pads for each player. It should provide real time data as to players location on the field...

http://gigaom.com/2014/07/31/the-nfl...-in-real-time/

Are we going to go backwards in F1 while other sports become the technology leaders?

Richard

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

decline in what sense? in terms of less viewers or in less similarity to what it was like in the past or both?

unsurprisingly i have thoughts on both reasons

My comment is in reference to F1's decline in popularity.

[peterelise]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I am not sure I agree with the problem they are trying to solve. As best as I can read that Autosport article, it is because fans are turned off by feedback from the pit to the driver during the race. It doesn't bother me, but maybe it is a big issue that I am oblivious to?

I have a polar opposite view on telemetry. I think it should generally be one way (car to pit), but don't limit it or the communication back to the driver. And in fact, require the teams to expose a large amount of that data to the viewers. Give viewers free access to online apps that show this telemetry either in raw form, or better yet via slick real time metrics (visualizations) that would be easy for casual viewers to understand, digest and appreciate. Why should we be limited to graphics on the screen (as picked by the producers) or pay to view apps that may or may not include telemetry, limited telemetry or just basic timing and scoring data that is no more revolutionary than what was available decades ago (granted not to the viewer, but lap and segment times is not a new concept and something better than that can be done).

Nothing would be more interesting than the ability view and examine moment to moment teammate battles or battles for position between multiple cars. And then there is the on track drama of an "incident". Why should we have to deal with the "we will view the telemetry after the race" to see what happened? For example someone tags someone in the rear going into a corner. Did the driver in front brake earlier than he had in the previous few laps, or did the driver in the rear just get caught out and brake too late? Why read about the details hours or days later, lets see those graphics right now and in near real time? I am not saying that this also has to result in a nanny punishment scenario either. Having more data and more specifically "timely" data might reduce the number of inappropriate punishments via stewards.

I know teams consider this to be proprietary and secret data, but suck it up. Its about entertainment as much as it is about sport. Share the data. Everyone will be on equal footing. It might also expose more about drivers than they care, but again, they are big boys in the big league. Deal with it.

I think it is also the future for sports. Real time tracking and metrics. I don't really follow US football (gridiron) but they are going to be testing out a location tracking system this season for each player on the field. Chips in the shoulder pads for each player. It should provide real time data as to players location on the field...

http://gigaom.com/2014/07/31/the-nfl...-in-real-time/

Are we going to go backwards in F1 while other sports become the technology leaders?

Richard

I agree with you.

I had the pleasure of attending a Nascar event at Daytona and was surprised I could hire a radio headset for for a pretty nominal fee and tune in to the communication between engineer and driver for any car I wanted, simply by tuning to the relevant race number. Having attended events in Australia or watched the very high calibre TV coverage in Australia I couldn't believe all this info was made available to the public and it greatly enhanced the spectacle for me.

Imagine how good it would be if while watching an F1 race you could listen in to the communication between engineer/driver for any car you were interested in. There is so much additional interest that F1 could generate in the sport and the spectacle if they made some of this stuff readily available and what do they do instead, they start to take away things that used to be provided for free like live sector timing.

I am sure there are some very smart business people making decisions about what is provided for free and what they can get away with charging for but I would be interested to see their analysis of the trade off between providing better access/more info for free (and thereby attracting higher viewers/spectators) versus charging for live timing apps at prices I think are ridiculous or by taking more of the TV coverage away from free to air. The approach of F1 seems to contrast with that adopted by Nascar which I believe has a massive and growing following.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

My comment is in reference to F1's decline in popularity.

k then i agree with most of Richard's post. the more info the better.

in fairness though F1 has made the live telemetry screens available online for ages now (15 years at least). there is a free app that also does this but the app that converts that info in live track positioning costs about $35-40 for the year.

but there should be a lot more info at that price including such options as giving us the tools to manipulate that info, pick two cars of our choice to see their sector comparisons, throttle/brake application tgo see how they differ in attacking a particular complex, play around with some type of pit stop predictor function etc. stuff like that. put some of the power of simulation into the viewers hands.

as for car radio...in general in other sports i love when they turn the parabolic dish towards a team huddle, the coach drawing up the next play. i want more insight not less. i want to feel like im involved. interactive and immersive entertainment....its one of the reason i like social media so much.

as for decline in popularity, this is the age of the internet, competition for peoples time and entertainment dollar is increasing and F1 is a niche sport which has chosen to price a lot of people out while refusing to modernize in how it distributes its product. greater cost but less value.

so i dont think giving us more info will change that trend but making it more accessible both in terms of amount of info and price could.

naturally FOM are moving in the opposite direction but when the average age of a FIA member is im guessing is late 60's i dont expect them comprehend any of this.

[Bandicoot17]

Don't know if someones mentioned this but:
Talk about fixing an issue that isn't an issue aha. FOM control the stuff going out so just don't put out this stuff and the problems fixed no??

[Paradise City]

Well, the dedicated fan typically loves his telemetry. I don't know if that's the case of the casual fan.

Although personally I'm happy for the man on the mike to deliver the salient information rather than trawling through spreadsheets or interpreting team-code. "Go faster, Jenson" is a bit anodyne compared to the fruity banter you sometimes see in NASCAR. That said, the dry Kimi radio wit is legendary for a reason.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Well, the dedicated fan typically loves his telemetry. I don't know if that's the case of the casual fan.

and thats perhaps the heart of your question. if popularity is declining do you focus on holding on the the dedicated fans or do you continue to sacrifice them in the hope that you may or may not attract more casual fans?

selfish of me to say but weather the storm by offering more to ensure the dedicated fans dont leave and then try to build upon that.