Jos should go for the max and 'shoot down' Arrows

[Hugh Jarce]

I really hope that Jos and Huub Rothengatter(!) get somewhere with sueing Arrows.

I've nothing in particular against Arrows but everything aganist the utter arrogance of teams who can think they can do what they want, when they want. A victory in this case is definitely needed for the on-going health of F1.

Huub reckons they are going for a substantial claim. Mmmm - how much do you reckon?

Plus, if Jos has a contact and wins the case, should he not have a rightful demand to be re-instated and have a drive this season, even though the pit crew may be instructed not to put wheels on his car!

I would be prepared to sit there with my car on the 'stand' just to prove the point!

[Super Tourer]

Hmmmm....maybe a bit of manager bluster. Not sure Jos has the funds to fight a prolonged battle against Arrow's - I can't see TW rolling over at the first solicitors letter and its gets heavily more expensive from that point on.

Diniz did win his case - but it took years and he certainly had the funds to fight it, buy the best advice and more importantly could afford to lose.

Jos is probably not in that position and in anycase a court case against Arrows won't get him a drive in 2002 any quicker.

[Hugh Jarce]

Super Tourer - I do agree to some degree.

But, then we are just left with the attitude that you 'can't fight City Hall'. To just ignore issues like this:

1. Makes contractual agreements utterly worthless and pointless.
2. Increases the power and arrogance of the bosses.
3. Breeds 'short-term-ism' in everyone's minds.
4. Means that two bad races, for whatever reason, and you're out.

I love to know where the word 'integrity' fits in the mind of someone like TW, or perhaps it no longer has to!

In my view, it's pretty poor stuff!

[steve nielsen]

Jos lives in Monaco and drives a Audi RS4, a Porsche 911 and also has a Ducati, I think he can afford a court case.

[av8rirl]

Originally posted by steve nielsen
Jos lives in Monaco and drives a Audi RS4, a Porsche 911 and also has a Ducati, I think he can afford a court case.

I don't think they'd really be enough for this case. Unless he has got some money stashed somwhere he probably can't afford it. Didn't one of his sponsors say that they would stick by him? Maybe they can put that money into a court case?

Personally I'd love to see an injunction served on Arrows, stopping them from racing till its all sorted out.

[steve nielsen]

of course Jos has some money left over from driving in F1 for 8 years.

[Hugh Jarce]

Originally posted by av8rirl


Personally I'd love to see an injunction served on Arrows, stopping them from racing till its all sorted out.

And why not? It happens in other fields / jobs where illegal actions take place.

The big issue to me (as a neutral on Jos, Arrows, TW) is that Jos and his manager negotiated a contact to RACE in 2002/3. If you put the money on one side for a moment, this guy has not only lost his job with Arrows but potentially for the whole season.

True another team could do the same to some poor unsuspecting bod who thinks they have got a contract, in order to get Jos on board. In my view the whole thing stinks.

I think if you are contracted, you are contracted and tough if someone better comes along during the season.

[Super Tourer]

Hugh - Sadly contracts are no longer as binding as they used to be and seemingly any contract can be bought or terminated and worry about it later.

I agree that Jos has been hard done by, but serving an injunction on Arrow's would put an immediate end to his F1 career - no team is going to hire a driver that dishes out injunction's, that may come back to bite them in the future.

A quiet withdrawal and an out of court settlement with TW is the best policy IMO.

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by Super Tourer

A quiet withdrawal and an out of court settlement with TW is the best policy IMO.

I agree entirely. If I'm correct, wasn't Jos driving for Honda when they were building their own car with Harvey Postlethwate leading development? Perhaps he can wander down to Jordan or BAR and see if his Honda connections can find him some suitable employment? Or maybe it's time to sit back and enjoy the fruits of his labour? How old is he anyway, and does he want to consider racing in another series??

[steve nielsen]

Originally posted by MichaelC


I agree entirely. If I'm correct, wasn't Jos driving for Honda when they were building their own car with Harvey Postlethwate leading development? Perhaps he can wander down to Jordan or BAR and see if his Honda connections can find him some suitable employment? Or maybe it's time to sit back and enjoy the fruits of his labour? How old is he anyway, and does he want to consider racing in another series??

Jos was born on 4-3-1972, so he's 29(will be 30 1 day after the Ozzie GP), and he does'nt want to race in another series, it's f1 or nothing for him.

BTW: he already said he will be back much sooner than everyone thinks, rumours are that Jos will start in the 4th race this season. Other rumours say that Prost maybe bought by a Dutchman.

[Gt_R]

I read off somewhere that there are some individuals and even fellow F1 drivers, Michael included i heard, who contacted Jos as soon as they learn of the breach of contract, to form a sort of group to challenge TW and to force FIA to do something that puts a stop to all this contract trash.

Good news for Jos...his getting support all over.

[steve nielsen]

Jos Verstappen
Born 4 March 1972(Montfort NL)
Married to Sophie
2 children, son Max and daughter Victoria
1992 Opel Lotus Benelux Champion
1993 German F3 champion
Winner Marlboro Masters F3
3rd at Monaco F3 GP
91 GP's, 17 points(after Japanese GP 2001)
2 podium places, Hungary and Belgium 1994



(the picture is 1999 BTW)

[Mr V]

Originally posted by steve nielsen

BTW: he already said he will be back much sooner than everyone thinks, rumours are that Jos will start in the 4th race this season. Other rumours say that Prost maybe bought by a Dutchman.

come on then steve, spill the beans!! whose gonna be thrown out in favour of jos?? my guess is a jordan driver as eddie likes to chuck em out mid season as opposed to waiting till the beginning, like tom!!!

should a dutchman buy prost, it won't be before the start of the season, so will the "new" team be allowed to enter after a few races? or even mid season? or would they have to wait till '03?

[steve nielsen]

Originally posted by mr v


come on then steve, spill the beans!! whose gonna be thrown out in favour of jos?? my guess is a jordan driver as eddie likes to chuck em out mid season as opposed to waiting till the beginning, like tom!!!

should a dutchman buy prost, it won't be before the start of the season, so will the "new" team be allowed to enter after a few races? or even mid season? or would they have to wait till '03?

Latest reports suggest that Jos will replace Mcnish if he does'nt perform the first races,and Jordan is also possible cause Sato is already having physical problems(and it's only testing), and Massa keeps demolishing Peter Saubers cars

And since the entry fee for Prost has already been payed the "new" team will only have to pay a fine for the races they would miss.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by steve nielsen


Latest reports suggest that Jos will replace Mcnish if he does'nt perform the first races,and Jordan is also possible cause Sato is already having physical problems(and it's only testing), and Massa keeps demolishing Peter Saubers cars

i don't think that toyota will want too much bad publicity so soon in their grand prix life by sacking mcnish after a couple of races! although i reckon he just might do the biz anyway!

can't see jordan replacing sato, even if it's just to keep honda happy! i'm sure that jordan will sort sato's comfort out.maybe a specially made seat from lear, like ferrari got for irv.

alot of young up and coming drivers have accidents so soon, he isn't the only driver to have an accident during testing over the last couple of weeks, and is going to be one of the future stars of F1.

if these three drives are jos's only way back into F1 then imo, he ought to start looking at other series, if he doesn't want to drive in a "lesser" series, then maybe he ought to look at his retirement plan?

[Hugh Jarce]

Originally posted by Gt_R
I read off somewhere that there are some individuals and even fellow F1 drivers, Michael included i heard, who contacted Jos as soon as they learn of the breach of contract, to form a sort of group to challenge TW and to force FIA to do something that puts a stop to all this contract trash.

Out of interest, can you remember where?

[av8rirl]

That was on formula1.com

Steve: I cannot see Jos getting one the drives that you mentioned. Not in a million years. Theres a better chance of him going back to Arrows.

[Super Tourer]

av8 - I agree - I can't see Jos getting those drives either.
EJ already faces a court case from HHF over his sacking last year - can't see him rushing into another one. Most observes agree that whatever the reason for HHF's departure were - it was handled badly by EJ. Sato is proven race/championship winner in F3 if Jordan can't get him comfortable in the car, thats their fault.

As for Toyota - we needn't sharpen our knives for McNish yet - he's been the fastest driver in whatever he's sat in over the last few years. Salo's nothing special IMO - another driver trading on a hazy past record ( a la HHF - who reckons he was faster than MS back in the 80's - hhmmm)
Can anyone remeber back to Brit F3......

To back this up a great quote from Peter Sauber. After KR's first couple of tests in the Sauber - Salo phoned Sauber to ask them what they had changed on the car to make it go much quicker - Sauber replied - The drivers....

[Total-F1]

A Formula 1 sprint-style race is different to pacing yourself on a long-haul ALMS race.

[Total-F1]

And Frentzen was faster than Schumi in the Mercedes sportscar team. He was the hot new thing over Schumi - that was why people questioned Eddie Jordan having Michael in at Spa 91.