CART/F1 negotiations over?

[LateBraker]

Hello all, I just read that the negotiations didn't go through? What gives? I thought it was almost a done deal? What do you think this means for CART?

[Liz]

I think that this is yet another "I didn't inhale" answer.

Pook has denied that Bernie is "taking over CART." Nobody thought he was.

Pook has denied that CART and F1 are merging; i.e. becoming one single series. Nobody even suggested that.

Pook has NOT denied that Bernie is considering a partnership or an investment, or that they are discussing options ... and meanwhile the NYSE options are going ahead as they must in order to accomplish both of the above.

I think they just don't want to tell anybody what they are doing until they're sure they have it all together enough to make it believable.

But that is just what I think.

[Flatspot]

What's your source?

[Jay]

I think this whole F1-Cart deal is something very complicated, and probably no announcements will be made for a while. If there are any deals in the works no doubt it will take a 747 load of lawyers to workout...

[Tailwind]

Welcome to the forum LateBraker.

[Flatspot]

In my haste i forgot to be polite. Sorry about that, it wasn't very freindly. Welcome to the forum LateBraker

[The Snout]

A lot of hopes and rumours have been made because there is something going on with Bernie. I don't think F1 is going to take over Cart but I do think they are just going to acknowledge a bit more formally that Cart is not a competitor to F1 but part of a ladder to it AND a series in it's own right. And if that means F1 can get more interest in North America by sharing a race weekend, Cart going to Europe and some cross promotion then that's no bad thing, done properly.

I also think that since F1 isn't going to add more than 17 races then Bernie can broker a few tracks Cart spots as an alternative for not getting F1. And as I saw written somewhere, if they do a good job with Cart then that's a good CV for getting an F1 GP proper.

[Liz]

Very well reasoned answer. Jay's right, there are probably more lawyers involved in this thing, not to mention accountants, than any of us ever will meet. And it's common in business to keep all talks secret until the moment; look how many deals have been announced only to be vetoed by the regulators or something.

[macdaddy]

Pook:

"I'm not going to deny to anybody that I've talked with Bernie Ecclestone. He's a friend. He's also the most intelligent man in motor racing in the world. And there is no doubt that I am rebuilding this series. So it's logical that I would go to someone like that and say, `Hey, am I going in the right direction?' That's what's going on. It's no secret that I have said on the record that I would like to take young drivers out of this series and present them to Formula One to see if they can make their way up the ladder. That's got to be the epitome of their career. All these things are out there, and somehow or another, someone has tried to connect all the dots, and said, `Ecclestone is going to take over CART. Maybe he is, -(Laughing)- I don't know, but he hasn't told me that. And he hasn't told anybody else that. But there are no formal discussions going on about our relationship with Formula One. Absolutely not."


I don't know what to think.

[Liz]

Smoke screen.

There are no formal discussions going on about our relationship with Formula One. This does not mean (1) There are no formal discussions going on about anything; (2) There are no informal discussions going on about our relationship with F1 i.e. we have not yet reached the formal discussion stage.

...connect all the dots and said Ecclestone is going to take over CART. I don't know, but he hasn't told me that. What it doesn't say is (1) Ecclestone is not going to invest in CART, or buy the shares from Forsythe that he is now collecting up. The truth could be (1) Ecclestone has told me what he intends to do and threatened me with death if I say a word; he has made it a life's work not to tell people everything he is doing until after he has done it and if I blab he'll stiff me and we'll all go down like a rock; or (2) Ecclestone has not told me what he's doing, so I can't tell you, but I want you to talk about this and not about "Is CART dead?".

Source: A lifetime of working for lawyers.

[Flatspot]

I'm not so sure Liz, Pook and Bernie are in fact freinds. I've got freinds who are my competitors too but alas they are freinds and we exchange notes from time to time.

Yes, CART has petitioned the NYSE to allow a single interest to own more that 10% of the CART stock. Many have put the two together but I don't think so. I think the most likely scenario is that Forsythe wants to keep increasing his stake. At present, he must go to the board and get another amendment even if he only wishes to aquire one share. This is a pain in the butt for both Forsythe and the board. Also, it could be some manuvering that would ultimately lead to Forsythe being able to vote all of his shares before the 2-year time imposition provided under his current amendments.

This does not mean that I don't think Bernie could become a player (stress "could") but, I'm still not convinced its a majority interest. We have a lot left to see before this game plays out.

Source: A lifetime of paying lawyers.

[Liz]

Maybe I'm just sick to death of doom and gloom, weeping and wailing and crying, and seeing everyone in the pitlane biting their lips till they are bloody.

Can't we please just believe that this might be a good thing?

However, feel free to weep and wail among yourselves if you wish.

[Flatspot]

Liz, not weeping and wailing. Either way it is a good thing in my eyes. Even if Bernie doesn't come the NSYE thing puts CART one step closer to going private again which I beleive would be HUGE!

I'm convinced that CART is far from dead. The next couple of years will be touch and go with a lot of ups and downs but CART will survive Bernie or no Bernie and I personally believe better in the end with no Bernie.

No doom and gloom here! Just sent my forms and payment in today for my camp spot at Laguna Seca. CART ROCKS!!!!!!

[Liz]

With or without Memo Gidley?

Good for you, I'm tired of being told by businessmen that I'm not being "realistic" ... if I'd been "realistic" one single minute of my life, I'd be someone else. Probably somebody really depressed.

[Flatspot]

Liz, you're funny You know I like Memo and would give him a ride in a minute if I had a team and I know he's not your favorite. I can accept that. If we all cheered for the same person there would be no point in being a fan. Would there?

On being realistic...if all businessmen were realistic there would be no eletric light bulb, no phones, no cars (god forbid), no internet. You get my point. Don't change, keep dreaming and being as unrealistic as you wish to be. It's what keeps the world interesting.

Oh by the way....MEMO MEMO MEMO MEMO MEMO MEMO MEMO MEMO MEMO MEMO MEMO GGGIIIDDDLLLEEEYYY

[Dave S]

Pook just stated in an interview on the CART internet radio feed 'several big announcements next week & again at Mexico. "You should see the light at the end of the tunnel very soon."'

[greg.n]

Yeah Dave. I believe Pook is playing his cards very close to his chest. Bernie may be involved but not as an owner or with aminority shareholding. I have never been comfortable with the idea of a majority shareholding in his hands. but i will believe that he is involved in some sort of discussion and negotiation that will benefit CART and Bernie(in some way-thats why he is in business).

[f1manoz]

Pook is a smart man, people trust him and he knows what he wants to do and he knows how to do it.

Anyone who thinks he's doing anything wrong don't know who they are talking about.

[Liz]

I was just being funny about Memo. Actually he's a nice guy and I've enjoyed talking with him on more than one occasion, and if I had two cars I'd have him and Moreno because they are both so eager. I admire guys who keep on trying -- they aren't "realistic" either.

Some people have descibed the current age as "Microwave Culture." People stand in front of the microwave shouting "HURRY UP!" because six seconds is too long to wait for dinner; they scream at the fax machine because it takes a minute to send a letter from Atlanta to Moscow, and they have apoplexy because the cops don't catch a sniper in under an hour with lots of time for commercials. And they get married three days after they meet somebody they think they love, and divorce her five days later when they decide they don't.

In real life, THINGS TAKE TIME.

[macdaddy]

http://espn.go.com/rpm/cart/2002/1029/1452612.html

Some exerpts:

Formula One chief Bernie Ecclestone says he does not need to be personally involved in CART for it to become a feeder series for his world championship.

Asked whether he would be interested in a takeover...Ecclestone told Reuters: "Probably not. Let's see."

"It doesn't need me to be involved for them to do that (become a feeder series). They could be now couldn't they? People come out of CART, there's a guy coming up for next year, isn't there? So why not?"

"Pook's a pal of mine and he's asked me a few things," Ecclestone said when asked about plans for a formal tie-up.

A Toyota spokesman confirmed that the team was 'in close contact' with da Matta, who drives for the Toyota-powered Newman-Haas team, but was not in a position to make any announcement yet. Team sources said there were still legal aspects to be resolved before any deal could be announced.

[greg.n]

So Bernie said "probably not, let's see!" We will see. And if he doesn't buy an interest that doesn't mean he wont be involved in some way. He acknowledges Pook as a longtime friend. There is something going on but because they are saying nothing the media and this forum are all trying to second guess what is going on, and cming up with scearios that may have some truth but not all the truth so they keep denying them, laying smokescreens. Wait and see. Roll on November 22nd!

[Liz]

Originally posted by macdaddy
Asked whether he would be interested in a takeover...Ecclestone told Reuters: "Probably not. Let's see."[i]

See what happened here? Bernie is denying that he's interested in a takeover . He is not denying he will have any financial involvement at all.

These guys are almost as good as Bill Clinton at answering only part of the question.

I to them.

[Liz]

From Friday's IndyStar On Line:

Pook again was forced to address reports of F-1 boss Bernie Ecclestone negotiating to buy controlling interest in CART. "One more time, he's a good friend and it would be silly for two guys in the open-wheel racing business not to talk," Pook said. "What we talk about is our business." .

[Liz]

The Mole at ITV has some interesting comments about Bernie's interest in CART ... Thus The Mole has been watching very closely as talk has emerged that Bernie Ecclestone is considering buying into Championship Auto Racing Teams Inc.While it is being denied that a deal is being done the Mole's spy network reports that while the CART people were busy in Australia at the weekend Bernie's lawyers and accountants have been taking a nice close look at the CART books and contracts to see if something can be organised ...


and TSN has a piece where Craig Pollock is discussing the subject too.

This is not dead. Not yet.

[Jay]

I don't think it'll ever be dead as long as Chris and Bernie are in their respective positions. There will be talk.

Interesting that Craig and Jacques seem to be trying to push them together too...