Isn’t it time F1 got modern and covered its wheels?

alchemy · 27 Oct 2002, 12:27 (Ref:414642)

Things called mudguards were discarded from racing cars almost a century ago mostly as a weight saving measure. For some inexplicable patriarchal reason this tradition still continues! Can someone give me a sound reason why a modern formula car should still have its wheels exposed?

I can think of many reasons on the grounds of safety why it shouldn’t. We see time and time again in touring and sports cars where contact usually results in little more than mere superficial damage. Rarely do we see the sight of errant wheels bouncing haphazardly as we do with formula cars even after the most violent of crashes.

In formula open wheel type cars, many have been killed and seriously injured as a result of wheels entangling and thus cars being launched skywards. If one looks at accident statistics you will find that the wayward ‘wheel/suspension assembly’ is directly or indirectly responsible for an incredible amount of fatalities and serious injuries. Of course the most recent death being Senna, when a suspension ‘push rod’ penetrated his helmet. It’s doubtful that would have happened had the wheels been contained as in a sports racing car.

F1, isn’t it time to modern up?

All enveloping bodies would allow more advertising area as well. Just think about that you corporate fat cats!

Down F0rce · 27 Oct 2002, 13:12 (Ref:414662)

F1 is an open wheel series. if the wheels were coverd, it would not be an open wheel series. thats pretty much all there is to it...

Damon · 27 Oct 2002, 13:14 (Ref:414663)

No, thats a silly idea. As Down FOrce says, F1 is an open wheeled series and if that changed god help us.

alchemy · 27 Oct 2002, 13:28 (Ref:414674)

Down FOrce and Damon.
GP's also used to be for cars with riding mechanics. Ever heard of change?

Lee Janotta · 27 Oct 2002, 13:57 (Ref:414690)

If the racing's good, I'll watch just about anything.

But Formula 1 is for open-wheel cars... They haven't had fenders since Mercedes in the '50s. If you want cars with fenders, watch sports cars. This is Formula 1, baby!

pole2pole · 27 Oct 2002, 14:04 (Ref:414693)

If there was to be any change to the wheels i would like to see coloured rubber.

Mr V · 27 Oct 2002, 15:04 (Ref:414719)

Quote:

Originally posted by pole2pole
If there was to be any change to the wheels i would like to see coloured rubber.

I'd like to see each car with the "own colour" wheels, but this can't be done as the tyres are randomly selected. As for mud guards....bad idea, if just for the fact that they'd look horrible alone, what next? rear light clusters?

ASCII Man · 27 Oct 2002, 15:13 (Ref:414722)

The only way mud guards could be used is on the rearwheels to reduce spray in rainy conditions

RT · 27 Oct 2002, 15:15 (Ref:414724)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v
I'd like to see each car with the "own colour" wheels, but this can't be done as the tyres are randomly selected. As for mud guards....bad idea, if just for the fact that they'd look horrible alone, what next? rear light clusters?

Perhaps a nice large fuzzy dice hanging from the instrument cluster would be nice too.

But seriously, wouldn't covered whels improve the aero performance?

If F1 is supposed (rightly I believe) to stand for cutting edge innovations to enhance performance, perhaps covered wheels may be in the agenda. They would shake things up in the aero-design area wouldn't they?

alchemy · 27 Oct 2002, 15:27 (Ref:414735)

Quote:

Originally posted by RT
... wouldn't covered whels improve the aero performance?

If F1 is supposed (rightly I believe) to stand for cutting edge innovations to enhance performance, perhaps covered wheels may be in the agenda. They would shake things up in the aero-design area wouldn't they?

Yes RT, precisely the point...

For all those stick-in-the-muds. What’s so special about the wheels being out in the open?

shiny side up! · 27 Oct 2002, 15:48 (Ref:414751)

Have you ever driven an open-wheeled car? There is something different about the experience, surely the drivers don't want to give it up...

That being said, there is nothing special or magic about the open wheel Formula, but that is just it, it is a Formula. It is how the rules are written. You can ask 'why not enclose the cockpit?' Surely this would aid aerodynamics... If F1 is a breeding-ground for streetcar innovation, why not place the engine up front? The answer is contained in the Formula of F1.

I think F1 cars are magnificent as they are. Of course, I would like to see a wider car, less wing elements, and an overall trend toward mechanical as opposed to aero grip. These can be done with small changes to the formula. Fenders cannot!

Liz · 27 Oct 2002, 16:04 (Ref:414767)

Why doesn't F1 get modern and become Sports Car Racing?

Because we already HAVE sports car racing, which incidentally is a lot more interesting than modern Formula One.

alchemy · 27 Oct 2002, 16:11 (Ref:414772)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
Why doesn't F1 get modern and become Sports Car Racing?

Because we already HAVE sports car racing, which incidentally is a lot more interesting than modern Formula One.

Yes Liz.

The Can-Am cars of the 70’s... wow they were sensational looking cars.

Not at all like these weedy, poncy looking F1 cars with their skinny tyres and get-you-out-of-trouble buttons.

Lee Janotta · 27 Oct 2002, 16:26 (Ref:414780)

Okay, I'm tired of this myth.

It's not about developing new innovations for street cars.

It's not about weeding out the weak teams so the strong grow stronger.

It's not about tests of mechanical precision and physical endurance.

It's sure as hell not about providing a perfect environment for tobacco and auto advertising.

IT'S THE RACING, STUPID!*

It's a sport! It's supposed to be fun, exciting, and spectacular! And skill, talent, and risk taking are what are supposed to bring success, _not_ a huge budget, an exclusive tire deal, and 3 months of the winter, 8 hours a day in the damn wind tunnel and on the engine dyno!

Screw modern! As the long as the cars are going fast and passing and re-passing each other, and look and sound downright _sexy_ doing it, I don't car if they've got cold fusion power or diesel!

That's why I won't even bother watching F1 anymore, but I stay up at absurd hours to watch sports and touring car races.

Y'know, some of the neophytes around here need to sit down and watch some classic races, and learn what this sport is _really_ about. I don't want to attack anyone, we're all entitled to our opinions, but I think some people are really poorly informed about what they're watching.

*"stupid" does _not_ refer to ANY member of ten-tenths. This is a paraphrasing of the political slogan "It's the economy, stupid!" used by Bill Clinton in the 1991 US Presidential campaign.

Armco Bender · 27 Oct 2002, 17:58 (Ref:414840)

Nah just doesn't look right,Can-Ams did it,but I think all it achieved was making them easier to flip over backwards.

nameless · 27 Oct 2002, 21:27 (Ref:414995)

covered wheels doesnt necessarily mean making a sportscar, you could just have an arch over the wheel like a mudguard as with the caterham 7, that provide alot of protection and still keep the car an f1 car

JGM · 27 Oct 2002, 21:35 (Ref:415002)

Most regulation changes are aimed at slowing the cars down. If completely enclosed bodywork were permitted the cars would be a LOT faster. Aero performance and the potential for both massively more downforce along with very high straightline speeds would be greatly enhanced.

Nicholas · 27 Oct 2002, 21:35 (Ref:415004)

Yeah, that was what I was thinking...

alchemy · 27 Oct 2002, 21:50 (Ref:415025)

Quote:

Originally posted by JGM
If completely enclosed bodywork were permitted the cars would be a LOT faster. Aero performance and the potential for both massively more downforce along with very high straightline speeds would be greatly enhanced.

oooo stop talking dirty ... I love it!

Yes, as I’ve said before F1 cars are too slow!

How can we have a situation where a road car is as fast on top end speed, if not faster than an F1 car is?

Pre War Grand Prix Mercedes and Auto Union’s were about twice as fast as the best sports car of the day. What does that say about modern F1 wimpy things... phaaa!!!!!

senna12 · 27 Oct 2002, 22:32 (Ref:415065)

Quote:

Originally posted by pole2pole
If there was to be any change to the wheels i would like to see coloured rubber.

Putting a set of white tires on a Williams would be like putting white skates on a hockey player! You would wonder who would hurt the eyes the most on a sunny day, a Williams or a Jordan?

kmchow · 27 Oct 2002, 22:35 (Ref:415070)

Ignoring safety for a second, an open wheel racecar with mudguards look just plain silly and ridiculous. But then, which comes first, safety or looks? OTOH, to be fair, would having mudugards increase safety that significantly,if at all?

Mr V · 27 Oct 2002, 23:01 (Ref:415094)

Quote:

Originally posted by kmchow
OTOH, to be fair, would having mudugards increase safety that significantly,if at all?

It would proberbly stop accidents like we saw at Australia this year where Rafe went over the back of Rubens and Estoril '92 where Patrase went over the back of Berger.

But mudflaps would still look silly.

ASCII Man · 27 Oct 2002, 23:06 (Ref:415097)

Extremely silly...
But what kind of mudguards? Like those one the Plymouth Prowler?

Total-F1 · 28 Oct 2002, 00:07 (Ref:415138)

Le Mans cars are F1 cars with the wheels covered.

Covering up the wheels of F1 cars would kill it as a brand - people wouldn't recognise it compared to what it used to be.

Valve Bounce · 28 Oct 2002, 05:57 (Ref:415229)

Alchemy does have a good point concerningsafety. When the wheels of two F1 cars interlock, there is a real chance of one of the cars being launched into the air. Personally, I don't understand why F1 cars need to have open wheels - maybe they can be driven quite differently when the drivers can see the wheels, and line them up precisely in corners. Any views on this point ? I am sure this argument must have come up before somewhere.

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