Honda taking steps to become a team?

Korr · 25 Jan 2003, 00:56 (Ref:485149)

http://www.f1racing.net/news.php?ID=53550

Quote:

Ress' role is officially to 'research long-term development projects' which suggests that Honda might still be keeping the door ajar should they decide to field their own works team in the next few years.

That could mean the purchase of BAR, or them leaving BAR with no engine in a few years...and it could be balderdash.

It wasn't long ago that Ferrari was the only works team in F1! Now we have Toyota, Jaguar, Renault...with BMW and Honda off in the distant horizon (rumors of course). I wonder who is next?

Wrex · 25 Jan 2003, 01:04 (Ref:485156)

Well Mercedes-McLaren is a semi-works team (ownership wise) and if Toyota make a success of it Honda may have to. Odds are though that it will be with the purchase of BAR.

Korr · 25 Jan 2003, 01:27 (Ref:485172)

How much of McLaren does Mercedes own? What would Honda gain by purchasing BAR? I know nothing of BAR's program or facilites. I've always heard that BAR does the least with a huge budget, but I haven't read anything to back that up.

Jukebox · 25 Jan 2003, 01:33 (Ref:485177)

I certainly would like to see Honda run their own team. A perfect car for formula1 in this era needs to be synchronized in detailed from it's aero package, chassis, tyres and engine. From the looks of their 2003 contender, it certainly dosen't look promising.

Teams that build their chassis around an engine would have the least chance of becoming the WCC.

ASCII Man · 25 Jan 2003, 01:35 (Ref:485179)

Pffft, like it'll ever happen.
They wussed out before because a leading character (forgot the name) had died...

ASCII Man · 25 Jan 2003, 01:41 (Ref:485181)

I wonder if they would take back Jos...

Valve Bounce · 25 Jan 2003, 02:05 (Ref:485193)

I always suspected the reason Honda pulled out of the engine deal with Jordan was so that they could control BAR and probably buy BAR out from BAT. EJ had no intention of selling his team, that's for sure.
I am more positive about BAR/Honda this year, but then I was positive about Jaguar two years ago :confused:

Sharky · 25 Jan 2003, 02:08 (Ref:485197)

Well, let's not forget that Honda's intention initially was to have a full Honda team but the death of their chief designer (Harvey Postlewhite.....I think I misspelled it...) forced them to opt for a engine deal instead. And ever since they started working with BAR there have been talks of Honda buying the team and and launching it as Renault. More or less what happened with Benetton.

And with their main rivals running a full team Honda must be desperate for having their own team.

Mr V · 25 Jan 2003, 02:15 (Ref:485202)

Quote:

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
Pffft, like it'll ever happen.
They wussed out before because a leading character (forgot the name) had died...

As soon as Harvey Postlethwaite died and the decision was taken to go with BAR i believe that it was always the intention to buy it (BAR) out, after all, whats the point of a tabacco company owning a team when tobacco sponsership ceases to be allowed in F1?

Korr · 25 Jan 2003, 02:18 (Ref:485203)

Quote:

...there have been talks of Honda buying the team and and launching it as Renault.

Two Renault teams?

Wrex · 25 Jan 2003, 02:20 (Ref:485205)

Quote:

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
Pffft, like it'll ever happen.
They wussed out before because a leading character (forgot the name) had died...

If your going to make silly comments like that, at least do some homework.

ASCII Man · 25 Jan 2003, 02:34 (Ref:485210)

A silly comment?
Why's that?
They didn't go trough with it, didn't they?

ASCII Man · 25 Jan 2003, 02:38 (Ref:485211)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharky
Well, let's not forget that Honda's intention initially was to have a full Honda team but the death of their chief designer (Harvey Postlewhite.....I think I misspelled it...) forced them to opt for a engine deal instead.

This is what i call "wussing out".

I'm sorry if it offended anyone.
I don't have the full knowledge of the english language to express myself as thoroughly as most of you people here can.

Sharky · 25 Jan 2003, 02:48 (Ref:485213)

Quote:

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
This is what i call "wussing out".

I'm sorry if it offended anyone.
I don't have the full knowledge of the english language to express myself as thoroughly as most of you people here can.

I understand you. I'm also in situations where I think to myself "now how can I put this in english" which isn't a native language for me either.

Anyway, returning to the subject. You've got to remember that Honda were developing the car while the 99 season was underway. When Postlethwaite died there was no chance to "poach" a top chassis designer as all top designers were busy at work at their own teams. The chassis they had was far from completed and there was no way to finish it on time for Australia in 2000 with a new engineer. On the other hand, the engine programme was running without any problems and what seemed to be a team with potential (at leas in the bank and I'm talking about BAR) was desperately looking for an engine.

I really can't blame them. Going out with the "prototype" chassis they had would have been embarrassing and the only other option would have been to postpone the proyect one year.

BTW, how things change, back then Bernie was furious at Honda because he was sure that he was finally going to fill the 12th team spot on the grid. Ha! Now we're down to 10.

Jukebox · 25 Jan 2003, 02:52 (Ref:485214)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v
As soon as Harvey Postlethwaite died and the decision was taken to go with BAR

With the amount of money they have, they could just about fish any descent designer available. They are just afraid of total failure eventhough that is exactly what is happening.

Wrex · 25 Jan 2003, 02:54 (Ref:485215)

Quote:

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
This is what i call "wussing out".

I'm sorry if it offended anyone.
I don't have the full knowledge of the english language to express myself as thoroughly as most of you people here can.

Fair enough ®îjñtjûh. I just found it a little incensitive that you would pass a judgement without looking up his name and understanding the magnitude his death had on the team.

Cheers,

Wrex

neilap · 25 Jan 2003, 06:42 (Ref:485303)

To my understanding its more than just the death of Mr Postlethwaite. American Honda was not at all supportive of the F1 effort. So after his death the powers that be felt it was a better financial decision to do what they know and build motors.

I dont think it was necessarily a bad choice. After all it is well known that BAT wont be in F1 forever.

Nicholas · 25 Jan 2003, 10:26 (Ref:485382)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jukebox
With the amount of money they have, they could just about fish any descent designer available

Why couldn't Jaguar do it then?

Morris 1100 · 25 Jan 2003, 10:36 (Ref:485391)

Harvey Postlethwaite died after Honda pulled out.

Harvey was trying to keep the team together without Hondas backing and the stress of it all caused a heart attack.

Honda pulled out of running their own team because of pressure from the USA (F1 what is F1!) and BAR coming on the scene with bags of money to take the Honda engine.

MrPress · 25 Jan 2003, 11:14 (Ref:485412)

Why do Honda feel they can make a single car go fast? After all their engine is a pig. BMW is a different story, but if Honda can't make an F1 engine properly what's the chances of a whole team going well, after all the Cosworth was ok but Ford couldn't do it (Don't forget that when Jaguar was Stewart Ford they were running well)

Mr V · 25 Jan 2003, 11:20 (Ref:485420)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jukebox
With the amount of money they have, they could just about fish any descent designer available.

Who else out there, designer wise, other than Adrian Newey or Rory Byrne was, honestly, in your opinion, good enough to design the initial car and get it up to speed?

f1manoz · 25 Jan 2003, 11:38 (Ref:485438)

I think Honda will buy out BAR when the EU tobacco regulations come through.

BootsOntheSide · 25 Jan 2003, 12:54 (Ref:485490)

Honda definately has its eyes on BAR, which would be the end of another team of character and racing spirit. Honda have not been a positive inclusion in many championships, they and Toyota have attempted to wreck CART, and they have threatened to pull out of the BTCC on several occasions including this summer, they conned Mansell into staying at Williams in 1987 when they knew full well that they'd be leaving Williams after 1 more season. Basically, they are bad news for racing.

golem · 25 Jan 2003, 15:36 (Ref:485601)

But they are a decent engineering firm. They have an image of producing some fine motors, but to keep that image up F1 is handy. They also do a lot of research and development for techniques employable on future motors. No doubt the S2000 motor uses some of their better tricks like the NSX did when they put it's motor together. A decade on and it's still a pretty damn impressive motor too.

Honda may like to get their own way but that's not unusual. It's good to have them about too because they're non GPWC and the GPWC knows with every non GPWC manufacturer willing to be in F1, F1 has less to fear from them.

Mark Webber · 26 Jan 2003, 10:16 (Ref:486242)

Quote:

Originally posted by MrPress
Why do Honda feel they can make a single car go fast? After all their engine is a pig. BMW is a different story, but if Honda can't make an F1 engine properly what's the chances of a whole team going well

well said

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