Mid-field or backmarker teams with Ayrton Senna driving.

[Mattracer]

Well, with the Brazil GP almost here, memories of Ayrton Senna flooding back and a thread a while back on the possible results today's leading driver Michael Schumacher could achieve in a lesser team than the top three, I was contemplating what might happen if Senna drove for Jaguar, Minardi, Sauber etc?

Remembering of course that Senna won races in inferior cars regularly and made others look inadequate frequently, would would happen in a team without the resources of Mac, Williams, Ferrari if Senna was left to his own deveices?

Someone once commented that TGF is supremely good and has a good team as well, and he is known as a team motivator and gives clear technical direction. Senna was also from this mould but seemed to make something out of not much at all and operated outside the regulation of team plans/strategies and won races pretty much on his own call from the car- Donnington 93. Just my thoughts- any others?

[Lee Janotta]

With Jag or Sauber, Senna could be a championship contender, as he was with Lotus, but not even Nuvolari could get that Minardi lump past midfield, unless the weather turned sour. In the rain, all bets are off!

[DNQ]

I don't know if Senna could be a contendor in a Sauber or a Jag. Definantly a Renault, but below that, no one can be sure.

[Lee Janotta]

Well, maybe not a serious contender, but at least a credible outside threat?

[Bleu]

I think Senna would be championship contender in Ferrari, McLaren and Williams. Maybe also Renault.

With Sauber, Jaguar, BAR, Toyota he would be regular point-scorer and would fight for the podium. With Jordan he would be regular pointscorer and with Minardi he would fight for the points.

[marcus]

I heard once that Senna said that in his final year of racing he would drive for Minardi for free , now that I would have loved to have seen

but I doubt he could win a race in it , maybe if luck went his way a podium was achievable , but a win i doubt very much.

I prefer to remember him for what he did , not what he could have done , he was a true racer and will never be forgotten.

[Armco Bender]

Remembering of course that Senna won races in inferior cars regularly

Did he though?,the most inferior car he drove was the Toleman,he never won in that,his best drive in it was the accident marred Monaco race,and his team mate for that season was totally hopeless so its hard to compare how good he was there relatively and he left mid season.The Lotus,McLaren and Williams were all good race winning cars.
He would be quicker than the current pedallers in a mid feild or back marker car,but you are never going to win a horse race with a donkey.

[BootsOntheSide]

Sorry Armco, I don't agree with that, on several levels. The 1993 McLaren was miles behind the Williams, and had a weaker engine than the Benetton (although it did have traction control), yet Senna won 5 times, 3 of them in the dry.

In 1994 the WIlliams was nowhere near equal to the Benetton - Hill only beat Schumacher in a straight fight once, in Japan, where strategy came into it. His other wins were down to Schumacher beign suspended, excluded or having technical problems.

Also, if you compare his results in 1987 at Lotus with Piquet's in 1988, considering that both were using teh championship-winning Honda engines, you can see that that wasn't really a race-winning car.

You can't base Senna' ability purely on 1984 - he'd come in as a rookie with no prior experience of the cars.

Based on all this, I think Senna could win races in this year's Renault or Williams, neither of which appear to be true contenders. I think he'd've won Malaysia in a Renault, and would be giantkilling in qualifying, even on the same strategies as the lead cars.

In one of the midfield cars he'd be able to score podiums, and maybe challenge for lucky / surprise wins in the wet. The enw rules give more chances to these teams, and put the onus back toward the driver and his strategies, especially the kind of heat-of-the-moment decisions Senna is famed for, and that'd play in his favour.

Wouldn't it be great to see Schumacher drive a season at Minardi, for free?

[krt917]

As great as Ayrton was, I think it's a bit too easy to get carried away with how quick he would be. Firstly, the modern technology in F1 means that a great driver (like Senna, Shuey etc.) will only be able to make a difference of a few tenths at most, whereas in the past he could make a bigger impact and influnec the reult more. That is why MS has been so strong - he is an incredible drive AND he gets the team round him - he has to.

Secondly, Senna DID have the best (or one of the best) cars during his career. the drives in 1993 were impressive, but I don't think the McLaren was that bad. Andretti's poor performances made it look worse than it was and Mika was quite competitive when he drove it. It's probably fair to say that driving against Hill (in his first full season) and Prost (passed his best, though obviously still competitive) gave him scope to demonstrate his amazing abilities.

The 1994 Williams was near the equal of the Benetton, but it was tricky to drive. This, combined with MS's increasing pace, put a lot of pressure on Ayrton and Williams, winess his spin at Interlagos. The point is that neither the '93 McLaren or '94 Williams can really be compared to this years Jaguar, Sauber, and maybe even the Renault.

I must admit, though, that it would have been great to see him and Schuey go head-to-head.

[DNQ]

He would have won today in the Jordan

[paulzinho]

The real rain master!

[Mattracer]

Boots, Schumacher wouldn't contemplate a season at Minardi especially for free, though I too would absolutely love to see it. TGF stripped of everything he has come to know and expect- massive budget, the best of everything and his shadows Brawn and Byrne, team orders....

KRT, the 93 McLaren wasn't a "bad car" in the backmarker sense of the word but even McLarens's persuasive tactics to convince Senna to drive it were a tell-tale sign- his last-minute arrival from Brazil to Imola and the race by race situation he proposed. It was fitted with the lower-spec Ford engine compared with the Bennetton yet Senna made lemonade out of lemons.

In Brazil this year, in those conditions, you wouldn't see which way he went. Be honest and think about it- arguably that was the most chaotic race for years and he would have done a "Donnington" and shat on them.

[Miss Hardt]

Originally posted by DNQ
He would have won today in the Jordan

Wow, that was cruel.

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by Miss Hardt
Wow, that was cruel.

Why?

Are you seriously suggesting that Fisichella is in the same league as Senna (would have been)....?

[903cc]

Wouldn't it be great to see Schumacher drive a season at Minardi, for free?

Yes but only if the damn thing was reliable otherwise it would be **** to see him break the thing every race.

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by 903cc
Yes but only if the damn thing was reliable otherwise it would be **** to see him break the thing every race.

Not really. It would certainly be interesting to see how he performed in it and whether his input could improve it (within their non-existent budget, of course).

[Miss Hardt]

Originally posted by Aysedasi
Why?

Are you seriously suggesting that Fisichella is in the same league as Senna (would have been)....?

No....I have accidentally read "would not" instead of "would". Don't worry, I admire Senna, especially because he shared my opinion of best F1 track.

[Dino IV]

Originally posted by Aysedasi
Are you seriously suggesting that Fisichella is in the same league as Senna (would have been)....?

Aside from any suggestion I wouldn't think their leagues (lonely ones still ..) to be very distant. Fisi is less magic than Senna yet technically far more master. The speed difference would be hard to predict.