Pizzonia to get the boot?

[JR Ewing]

He dominated in a weak F Renault year...
He (in the end) scraped home in a very weak F3 year...
He failed to really shine in two big budget F3000 seasons...
He is obviously totally out of his depth in F1...

How long before he becomes a casualty and who could replace him?
A swap with Lotterer perhaps?

[Mal]

Perhaps they will invite Eddie back!!

[Francesca]

76 podiums from 112 international races with 48 victories, 21 second places, 48 fastest laps and 50 pole positions to his credit.

Weak?

[ensign14]

He is an enigma. His lower formula record is almost peerless, but his F3000 record was not as good as expected. Perhaps he was too busy testing the Williams (whose Patrick Head rated his testing ability highly) and having to 'come down' to F3000 was too difficult? Jean Pierre Wimille and Raymond Sommer were both killed in cars less powerful than those to which they were used. David Tremayne wrote about jet pilots being killed in little Piper craft because they could not think down to the less powerful machinery. This could have affected Pizzonia.

More concern is his driving etiquette in F3000 which was pretty poor. More than once he tried to take out drivers and was actually punished for it (a rarity).

However, he has not shown to be out of his depth in F1 yet. Going off at the same corner as MS and JPM is not a total disgrace. And he could drive rings round Lotterer, who has never shown anything out of the ordinary IMHO.

[DNQ]

I do my best to follow F3000, but it's hard in Australia with nil coverage. Anyway, from what I see/hear, he wasn't that good in F3000 (at least slightly below expectation), and I'm afraid up to now, he's shown he's not too good in F1. He seems to be in the same mould as Massa. Pizzonia may have been a rookie, but he's had 100 cars racesbefore. Kimi only had 30 or so, and was instantly impressive.

[Super Tourer]

I think we need a few more races to gauge his performance. Having said that he had a very favourable path in the lower formulae, being in the top team in both F3 and F Ren.

Despite being in one of the top teams in F3000 he didn't shine and setting a good pace on a test day is not that comparable to a race weekend situation.

Strangely some driver's seem to fade after F3, even if they were proven at that level. Maybe they are flattered by weaker opposition?

ST

[BootsOntheSide]

Three races, four avoidable accidents. NOT good. I know he's only a rookie, but he's got a lot to learn. Webber has signififcantly had the better of the team so far, and his lower formula record isn't that impressive if you comapre the otehr guys form his F-Ren and F3 fields, most of whom have disappeared. And he always was in the best team, even in F3000 he was under David Sears.

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by Mal
Perhaps they will invite Eddie back!!

Very funny Mal........

(You weren't being serious - were you? )

[GTRMagic]

Webber shunted but at least he was at 11/10ths at the time... beating his teammate by a fair stretch seems something of a habit... maybe the guy is just super good?

Pizzonia will be safe till half year, or till Jag run out of tubs, which ever comes first.

I think we may see a changing of the guard at Jag, with the spare car allocated to Webber every race weekend... that would make sense to me...

[Jack racer]

Saying that he didn't do well in f3000 after driving a f1 to me only mean he doesn't adapt well to changes that = a not so good driver.

[mac]

I think he deserves to stay for the whole year. The team picked him, they should stick by him for the entire season. I hate seeing drivers being punted in their first year, without being given a proper go.

Unless they are total nuffies, which I believe Pizzonia is not.

[Valve Bounce]

Give the guy a chance, please. It's early days.

[Rick]

Webber said he had trouble swapping from F1 testing to F3000 when he was Benetton tester. I think that went along way to why he didn't win the championship.

[Tristan]

I must admit, I was expecting more from Antonio, but yes. He needs more races. We shall see.

[Raven]

His testing and practice pace is good, I think it's just a case of stringing it together when it counts. He's made some mistakes, but they've been in some pretty difficult and hairy situations like the start at Malaysia. Judging by Webbers performance in Brazil compared with Malaysia, and the fact that Pizzonia currently holds the lap record at Valencia, I would guess the Jag is a very good car with the right set up, but a tricky one without. That's why we need to give him time.

Lets not forget he was running a completely different strategy to Webber in Brazil and qualified with a much heavier tank. When he spun out he was actually ahead of Webber...

Now we're going to get into the meat of the season, on circuits Antonio knows. I'm confident we will see a big upturn soon.

[Mattracer]

Webber has an even, hard-working temperament which is perfectly suited to the job at hand at Jaguar. He is fitting in well.

"...looks like he belongs (in F1)..." Martin Brundle.

Admittedly, the jury, for me, was out for a while but he has knuckled down and got to work at the business of being an F1 driver, and he understands that it doesn't involove driving the car on wekends. He wants it badly and is earning his reputation slowly and surely.

[Sodemo]

Don't forget that an F3000 car is unlike any other type of single seater racing car, many people go through the lesser formulea and are consistantly quick, then get to F3000 and are amazed at how different the cars handle.

The co-commentator on Eurosport (an Ex F3000 driver) said that the cars are a lot more "wollowy", have "wishy washy handling etc" and are not as direct as F3 cars.

F1 cars are a lot like F3 cars but with more power and grip.

[Splatz the Cow]

Its probably a bit unfair to expect him to be impressive so soon. His team mate has had more time in F1 races and probably just feels more settled and comfortable.

Many drivers have struggled in F1 in there first year when joining a team that has more retirements than points finishes. Certainly this was not a good race for the rookies to try and perform.

[darcym]

I am sorry but I am inclined to agree, pay your dues and be on the pace out of the box.

In my view you pay your dues in the lower forumla, go testing and gain experience, then when you come into formula 1 you are ready, if you choose to skip a formula and go into F1 and are not on the pace straight away and on a regular basis you are out, F1 is the elite of motorsport, too many young punks are walking into after a good F3 season.

Allow me to give some examples.

1.) Schumacher, paid his dues - stepped into F1 impressed od debut, got a drive and has been on the pace ever scince

2.) Irvine - did the lower formula, did some Jap 3000 came into F1 after only drivng the car once, put on a great drive and earned a seat for next year, from then on his has been as quick as or quicker than his teammates with the excpetion of 96 which everyone realise was a shumacher config year.

3.) Webber, paid his dues in the lower formula, tested F1 stepped up when ready was on the CARS pace straight away, is now performaing well at jaguar

4.) Kimi Rakionen missed out a lot of formula yet cut the mustard - he can stay as he was on the pace straight away and stayed there

5.) Senna - came from F3 was on the pace and turned out to be a great driver

So as you can see from the list above they came into F1 prepared OR well trained and did well

Now lets look at the flip side

1.) Sato - started racing late, did well i lower forumulas although didn't compete in all, did a little F1 testing, ran before he could walk, looked an arse until the last race of the season

2.) Wurtz - came into F1 after some testing and a quiet lower formula record, did a good first race but just wasn't on the pace (also part to Flav who hated him but hey thats part of the game) so was dropped, he is now re-training him self in F1 at Mclaren

3.) Pitzonia - an ok lower record - did some testing should be on the pace of the CAR (not the race) striaght away and regular or loose his place

4.) Ralph - on the job training, a good lower formula record, F1 with Jordan a mobile bomb for 2 years before getting his act together, after the first year he should be been dropped to go back to training...he was not prepared but look at the difference time has made (although still not that good)

5.) Firman - good lower F1 record, very little F1 testing, let be real he is struggling, but mainly down to lack of experience - he should not be racing "yet"

I am sure you can see the trend come in ready - do a god job you stay, come in before you should fail you should be kicked out.

F1 is the elite and I think driver managers are pushing young not ready drivers into F1 read some of the hype "Jimbo Jims has just won an FF1600 race a test with an F3 team is lined up with a possible F1 test at the end of the year".....WHAT ??? you get the drift

I tried to start this thread on the itv-f1 message board but got flamed (sato is great, pitzonia rules etc etc) instead of them reading that I was trying to say they are good they need more time to walk before running.

I may try to start this thread here


3.)

[MichaelH]

He's a good driver, albeit not in the Senna or Peterson sense. He's fast enough when things are going well, naff when they're not and has enough potential to warrant a full season. There.

[Webslinger]

Playing devils advocate here, there are moe than the average number of quotes stating "give the guy a chance".

Last year another rookie was slated on these very pages, probably by the same people supporting Pizzonia(?), for not winning (sic) his first GP straight out of the box, with no prior experience of the car. On both occasions though he matched his more experienced team-mate AND brought the car back undamaged, despite giving it 11/10ths. Pizzonia, on the other hand...

I think my point has been made... it's known as employing 'double standards'.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by darcym
I am sorry but I am inclined to agree, pay your dues and be on the pace out of the box.

Doesn't always work - Baghetti won his first 3 F1 races but never won again. Whereas Niki Lauda had 1 points finish in his first 2 years but was a 3 time champ. Also compare Alesi's start (nearly winning with a Tyrrell in his 1st full season) with Graham Hill's (no points in 2 years). There are some 'sleepers' and some who flatter to deceive.

[steve nielsen]

Don't forget he's done loads of testing for Williams, he is'nt a real rookie anymore.............

[darcym]

its not a case of scoring points - its a case of of being on the pace of the CAR. I enjoyed Kimi's performance last year, yet the point I am trying ot make is begin missed.

Drivers are good....but a lot of new rookies are running before they walk and entering F1 too early. you are ready for F1 when you are one of the elite drivers, who in my opinion are fast out of the box, this doesn't mean scoring points, or winning race, just get the most out of the car straight away. To do this there must be a certain level of experience gained from lower formulas and a certain ammount of natural talent. I think there is a lack of both in most rookies coming into F1.

Niko rossberg was quick-ish out for the box because of the ammount of driver aids, but him in a race condition in an F1 car and I am not sure he'd do so well.

Hopefully you will see the point I am going for.

[f1manoz]

The jury is still out on Pizzonia. He did a good enough job in Australia (kept the car on the road), blew it in Malaysia (that was a silly first corner incident) and frankly was just unlucky in Brazil (come on, 6 other cars went off at the same corner, and Antonio was the second one).

His pre-F1 record is obviously good, and he does appear to have good pace, so I'm not going to write him off yet. However, if he keeps up with the crashing, then it might be time for a rethink.