Faviroute modified class Rallycross car of all time

[Peter S]

Mine has to be the Ford Capri and Ford Sierra of Tony Proctor and the big Rover of Wayne O Conner.

Dont suppose anyone has any pictures of the big Rover and the old Capri do they?

[Hog]

Yup - the Rover did it for me as well.

What about Roger Newboulds Renault 5 - and why was it called Charlie?

[Peter S]

Barrie might know why it was called Charlie. someone told me a while ago but i have forgot, maybe something to do with his dad.

I wonder what ever happened to the big rover, imagine how cool it would be to have it back in the championship now!

[Stevie A]

The 1.5 Lada Samara of Richard Watts.......Lada's are just not supposed to go that fast!!!!

[Peter S]

Oh yeah!! HOw class was that!! Any Richard was a top driver. Very fast, shame we have lost him as he could have been good in Europe. His brother, who was a show jumper then took over that car when Richard moved to the Escort Cosworth

Within three years we lost Richard Hutton, Nick Jones and Richard Watts who were looking like replacements for Gollop, Rennison and Welch. What a shame

[Hog]

A mate of mine who does vinyl graphics gave me a new clipboard as a birthday pressie last year, with my name emblazoned across it. Inside was an actual set of grid sheets from the August bank holiday meeting from about 10 years ago - when his son was racing in the then Production class. I must scan it and post it on here - the names bring back all sorts of memories, both from those still racing and those who are sadly no longer with us (Hopkins, Moyce, etc.)

Is there any way of attaching a .jpg or .gif image to one of these posts?

[Barrie]

Modifieds, got to be the many Porsches weve seen a 2wd gize.

Michael Bourner, Des Winks, John Greasley, John Clark, Rob Gibson, Colin Perry-Williams.

[schanche]

only one car that does it for me Tony Bardy in the Vauxhall Astra!Many a time this man started from the back and came threw to win in big style,an the battles he an Mr Newbold used to have awesome.
Hi folks new member to the forum at last a forum for us Fans who live an breath Rallycross although Mr Stott i think has it running through his viens lol.

[Barrie]

Welcome Mr Schanche from Kent.

[Peter S]

Yeap great to see another rallycross enthusiast.

[schanche]

Thanks for your welcome fellow Fans its good to be on here!
re Modified cars!All this talk of the big engined Rover and capri sets my mind back to a brute of a car that i saw on a number of occasions,I know it didnt feature in the British Championships but i did see it on these shores at the Internations many moons ago,the Holden Comodore of Eddy Guffens? the sound from the exhaust was thundering and a handful to drive. Alas no picture but still can hear it know Brilliant.

[Peter S]

Funny you should say that cos i have just been watching coverage again of 1990 inter nations cup from Croft where he drove the big Holden for the Belgium team and got amongst the ford sierra RS500's.

You want pictures of it?? Ok......go to this link here............(the picture is when Jacques Franssen drove it) http://www.rallyracing.nl/oldies/oldies%20a.htm

oh and here is the link to the guffens version

http://www.rallyracing.nl/oldies/rs-10.jpg

Loads more oldies online.

[schanche]

Are there any rallycross DVDs out from the past 10yrs yet do you know anyone

[Peter S]

Nope, not seen any dvds of rallycross yet. Maybe duke may start supplying them before long.....hopefully.

I will have a look at some of the European footage and see if any have gone dvd.

[beef cake]

In my opinion, the best rallycross cars were as follows:
The Xtrac Escort turbo (driven by Schanche and Welch)
Group B Peugeot 205 T16 E2 (driven by Seppo Nittimaki), Group B Lancia Delta S4 (driven by Matti Alamakki), Group B Ford RS200 Evo (driven by Schanche, Mark Rennison, et al.)

Fantastic cars, proper horsepower!
Makes todays cars pale into insignificance.

[BertMk2]

Originally posted by beef cake
Fantastic cars, proper horsepower!
Makes todays cars pale into insignificance.

Fantastic cars - yep agree with that.

Proper horsepower - yep (although matched by current machinery)

Makes todays cars pale into insignificance - not really, the modern cars can generally kick the group B cars asses on track now.

I'll agree that the group B machinery looks fantastic (I certainly prefer the appearance of the RS200 to the Focus) but performance wise the modern machinery is just as good if not better.

[beef cake]

Bert, fair comment, but I think you'll find that no-one of any importance now uses Group B machinery (maybe apart from Pat Doran, RS200 again).

If they'd continued running Group B cars in European Rallycross champs, I think they'd be over 1000 bhp by now. They were already well over 600bhp back in about 1992! Therefore you can;t say the current cars would kick the Group B cars now.

Also, its a bit like in F1. The old turbo cars of 1985/86 had loads of power - reputedly 1400bhp from the BMW! Now you can't compare that to todays cars, with just over half that power, can you? You can say one is faster than the other, but you could never prove it.

I think if the top european guys were still driving Group B cars, you'd change your mind.

P.S. Check out the May (i think) issue of Cars and Car Conversions magazine for a proper, BIG bhp RS200! That would crush todays rallycross cars with no effort!!!!

Cheers!

[Peter S]

Of course the new cars would kick the Group B cars arses in Europe. They are far advanced from the Group B days. Group B cars are dead.

I would stand up Hansens Citroen Xsara against any Big BHP Ford RS200 and Kenneth would kick its backside......on any rallycross track around Europe.

It wouldnt be within 3 seconds a lap of the modern ERC machinery. I cant understand why people have this image of Group B cars being quicker. BHP isnt everything you know, despite what Boy racer magazines says

[BertMk2]

To some extent we saw that happen at the grand prix at Croft last year, the modern machinery is a step forward for overall lap times over the older cars - the group B cars have to push the limits of their engines to get every last bit of BHP possible so they can stay in touch. BHP isn't everything, sure you need a healthy dose of grunt but it's no use having all that power and not being able to use it effectively.

I love the group B cars but their time at the top has gone, things have moved on (those cars are getting on for 20 years old now). It's still great to see them on track giving it some though - there's a rally supercar day at Castle Combe in August where a load of group B cars will be out on track, it's not quite the same as seeing them wheel to wheel but it's still great to see them.

[Peter S]

Couldnt agree more BertMk2.

If people want them to stay in rallycross then there maybe is a case for a classic rallycross championship which could be divided into two, one for Group B and the other for pre 76 machinery.

Group B cars were kicked out of rallycross nearly 12 years ago now. I find it difficult to understand why some have a false perception over the Rs200's nad metros being quicker than modern machinery. Many on the continent have said to me this is why British Rallycross has been in limbo for a long time. The Group B perception is false and has mainly come about due to the lack of comepetive rallycross (i.e European, Grand Prix) that we have had in England.

The Group B machinery was good and spectacular in there day, but that was 12 years ago. Just like the Group C sportscar days that we no longer see no more. But what Rallycross has is much better and more competitive now, with cars that are quicker than ever before. This is what British Rallycross is trying to encourage, hence the rise in profile of the British Championship, which will continue to rise to new heights over the coming years.

Basically history is history, which Group B cars are and they should be kept that way.

[fetzo]

hmmmm, lets see.

tommy kristoffersons BP Audi Quattro
mikael nordströms WICKED VW 1303 4WD
bernhard carls red Porsche 911 (when it was new....he wrecked it more and more over the years )

well talkin about performance , i think will gollops mg metro was awesome, seeing this little cube accelerating was great .

its really sad, that such cars arent driven anymore those 4 cylinder 2.0 liter cars from today sound like ****, compared to a huge porsche .

[KA]

Originally posted by Peter S
You want pictures of it?? Ok......go to this link here............(the picture is when Jacques Franssen drove it) http://www.rallyracing.nl/oldies/oldies%20a.htm

Franssen liked unusual cars didn't he- I noticed his Toyota Celica Supra amongst those pics as well....

Didn't he move onto a Subaru Legacy after the Commodore?

[Peter S]

YEap Fransson drove a Subaru Legacy in the Group N class from 1993 and then changed to the Subaru Impreza model later on. He then converted his Impreza to division 1 specification in 1995/96 which brought a third place in the 1999 Belgium round of the ERC, his best result in the top division of the ERC.

Now he has retired and sold his Subaru

[Bob Irvine]

What is the stats for accelaration on GR B cars compared to say Hansens Citreon?Also (a bit off topic,sorry)With WRC cars coming in at a reputed 450 000,what kind of price are we looking at for say Carnegies Focus

[Peter S]

Hansens Xsara goes from 0-100kmh in 2.4 seconds
Dorans RS200 goes from 0-60mph in 1.8 seconds

So when conversions done hardly any difference.

Rallycross supercars cost a lot less as they are not fully blown World rally cars. Division 1 machines are WRC clones or type WRC cars.

Some example prices:

Marko Joikenes Peugeot 206 Rallycross Car (the word WRC cant be used in rallycross under the FIA regs) but it is a WRC machine and in top specifiaction for rallycross (Peugeot Sweden) Costs 80,000 Euro which is about £57,500

Eivind Oplands Mitsubishi Division 1 machine sold for around £57,000 which won numoerous rounds of the European championship in the top division.

John Cross's Ford Focus costs about £32,500

So Rallycross machinery in top spec is about £390,000 cheaper....hehe! Making it more afordable.....hence more people should be in the supercar division.