Who, what, when, where? (Not a quis question!)

cirrus · 28 Sep 2003, 10:51 (Ref:732674)

I was recently given a large collection of racing photos from the 60's to 90's. This one intrigued me - it looks a bit posed. I think I can identify the car, but what about the venue, driver and year?

josvandeperre · 29 Sep 2003, 09:30 (Ref:733793)

France certainly Reims possibly ? Early sixties

JustinDawkins · 29 Sep 2003, 10:14 (Ref:733852)

the cars is a Lotus 21 or 22 (cant remember which)?

Rob29 · 29 Sep 2003, 16:10 (Ref:734271)

Quote:

Originally posted by JustinDawkins
the cars is a Lotus 21 or 22 (cant remember which)?

21 was an F1. This looks like a FJ 22 which would make the year 1962 if it was new.We need someone with a Sheldon F.Junior blue book to identify #14.

cirrus · 29 Sep 2003, 18:10 (Ref:734434)

I agree, it does look like a Lotus 22, but I am not sure that it is. The photo came from a large number given to me by Ron Tauranac before he returned to Australia recently. All the other pictures are of Brabhams and Ralts, many at the factory. The Lotus 22, as far as I remember, had a wider engine cover with air inlets either side of the cockpit surround, and this car does not appear to have those. The forward mountings of the radius rods doesn't look quite right either.

I wonder if this is in fact a Brabham BT6, the wheels also look more Brabham than Lotus (I've got the benefit of the 12x8 original!) The BT6 was a 1963 car, and from my limited records there was an FJ race at Reims on 30th June, won by Denny Hulme in a works BT6 number 14.

But surely that's not Denny at the wheel......

D-Type · 30 Sep 2003, 06:50 (Ref:734931)

The picture looks like "Our team at ---- ". If so each element means something.

1. What is signwritten on the van? I can't read it on my screen. It could be the team van
2. What about the pit board? It probably tells the story of the race. I read it as 16 seconds behind, in 3rd position, 10 laps (Or ahead or behind no 10).
3. Is the person standing behind the car recognisable?
4. Is the "driver" recognisable?

Cirrus, can I suggest you post blow-ups of these. I don't know the answers but someone might.

cirrus · 30 Sep 2003, 07:12 (Ref:734947)

I was thinking the same - I'll do some blowups tonight. The words on the van are (from the top) Lisez, Chaque Mois and Sport Auto - somehow I don't think it's the works Brabham van.

PeterMorley · 30 Sep 2003, 08:56 (Ref:735047)

Words on the van mean "Read Sport-Auto every month".

Sport-Auto is a French magazine, maybe it was an advert for the magazine (I do have all of them but can't get to them right now to look it up).

Car is definitely not a Lotus - it has holes in the wheels, Lotus junior wheels were solid.
Does look like a Brabham junior, BT6 most likely - so 1963 or 64?

Could the garages in the background be under the banking at Montlhery?

David McKinney · 30 Sep 2003, 18:14 (Ref:735647)

Chequered Flag RT colours?

cirrus · 30 Sep 2003, 18:14 (Ref:735648)

Well - after a David Hemmings style session with the scanner, I can't add much. There is a very 60's French-looking Shell sticker on the camionette, and this is our mystery pilote....

cirrus · 30 Sep 2003, 18:17 (Ref:735655)

Oh....and these are the wheels - I'm sure they're Brabham. By the way, isn't the car pointing the wrong way for Reims?

cirrus · 30 Sep 2003, 18:22 (Ref:735663)

And here's the guy behind the car - Bonjour Matelot!

TimD · 30 Sep 2003, 18:56 (Ref:735694)

Very David Hemmings - I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers that!

I wonder if there's mileage in studying the "camionette"? It looks suspiciously to me like a Ford Thames 15cwt van. A trifle unusual for a French equipe? Anyone remember it?

cirrus · 30 Sep 2003, 19:56 (Ref:735771)

Here's a closeup of tha cab - the coachwork looks a little home-brewed

**Peter Mallett** · 30 Sep 2003, 20:14 (Ref:735796)

Well "Blow Up" was a great movie and we've just proved it was thirty years ahead of its time!

The van is very much like an Austin J2(?). Possibly a Peugeot.

I'll be honest I don't actually know the location but it looks very much like the back of the tribunes at Eau Rouge at Spa.

But isn't that nose (on the race car) soooo sexy?

D-Type · 1 Oct 2003, 10:51 (Ref:736488)

Is that a steering wheel visible on the van, making it RHD.

Assuming the car is a Brabham aren't the colours wrong for a works one? Jack's private F1 Lotus 24 was a bright light green. The F1 Brabhams were originally turquoise with gold stripe and nose then green with gold stripe and nose. I don't know the colours of the F2 team. As it was pre-sponsorship I expect they would be the same.

My guess is that it's a photo shoot for Sport-Auto with the journalist in the car of France's latest young hope. Or maybe a Sport-Auto sponsorship deal.

But I must admit it's all pure speculation.

Michael Oliver · 1 Oct 2003, 12:46 (Ref:736624)

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Type
Is that a steering wheel visible on the van, making it RHD.

Assuming the car is a Brabham aren't the colours wrong for a works one? Jack's private F1 Lotus 24 was a bright light green. The F1 Brabhams were originally turquoise with gold stripe and nose then green with gold stripe and nose. I don't know the colours of the F2 team. As it was pre-sponsorship I expect they would be the same.

My guess is that it's a photo shoot for Sport-Auto with the journalist in the car of France's latest young hope. Or maybe a Sport-Auto sponsorship deal.

But I must admit it's all pure speculation.

IIRC, Sport-Auto was Jabby Crombac's magazine, a kind of French version of Autosport. Since he was very much around at that time, maybe he would remember, even recognise the venue and driver?

Cheers

Michael

Rob29 · 1 Oct 2003, 13:45 (Ref:736705)

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Type
Is that a steering wheel visible on the van, making it RHD.

Assuming the car is a Brabham aren't the colours wrong for a works one? Jack's private F1 Lotus 24 was a bright light green. The F1 Brabhams were originally turquoise with gold stripe and nose then green with gold stripe and nose. I don't know the colours of the F2 team. As it was pre-sponsorship I expect they would be the same.

My guess is that it's a photo shoot for Sport-Auto with the journalist in the car of France's latest young hope. Or maybe a Sport-Auto sponsorship deal.

But I must admit it's all pure speculation.

Certainly not a works car and not an F2.F2s were the same green & gold as the F1s.The earlier FJs were turquoise-I remember seeing the first 'Brabham' then called an MRD at Goodwood Aug 1961.The 'works' F3 team from 1965 was run by 'Chequered Flag' and used black & white colours.

gfm · 1 Oct 2003, 19:50 (Ref:737086)

I had a van like that in 1968 I think. Carried our F3 Tecno. It was a Ford Thames 15cwt Pickup with an engine in the cab and an impossably tall overdrive 'fourth' (great down hill, appauling everywhere else; demanded more skill on the road than the circuit in the F3...)but ours was a canvas top whereas the one in the pic seems to have a faired in fixed creation. How sad is this ...?

josvandeperre · 2 Oct 2003, 08:59 (Ref:737680)

The bloke in the background looks like someone's very muscular boyfriend....altho' the van is rhd I'm not sure the photo is a total set-up - it comes accross as a French team and/or driver both from the advertising and the T10 on the lap board

carrera · 2 Oct 2003, 19:08 (Ref:738389)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by josvandeperre
[B]The bloke in the background looks like someone's very muscular boyfriend....

Yours perhaps?

Apologies, but you did leave yourself wide open.

josvandeperre · 3 Oct 2003, 08:19 (Ref:738945)

In view of my age at the time of the photo I think I had best take the Fifth on that.....

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