Secret McLaren engine

DavidStHubbins · 20 Nov 2003, 13:16 (Ref:789466)

My dad told me that McLaren have developed a new engine which has a revolutionary camshaft which doesn't use springs?! I know nothing of engineering but apparently this will mean that the revs can now go thru the roof. Apparently McLaren expect Ferrari to launch a protest against it and for it to be canned by Max... My dad's friend works for Ilmor who came up with the new camshaft.

Maybe Montoya knows about this?! Thought I would share this just in case it turns out to be true

Raikkonen for the title!

MrBluesman1 · 20 Nov 2003, 13:22 (Ref:789472)

well there goes the secret

DriverT · 20 Nov 2003, 13:36 (Ref:789490)

Well, now it's been revealed on 10-10ths, they'll all be copying it now.

Seriously, can an engine boffin please comment on this?

**Stephen Green** · 20 Nov 2003, 13:39 (Ref:789495)

I thought that was what pneumatic valves did?

DavidStHubbins · 20 Nov 2003, 13:51 (Ref:789513)

Apparently Ferrari will either try to get it banned or copy it! I did not realise Ferrari had SUCH clout. I hope FIA let it be, if indeed it is real.

Inigo Montoya · 20 Nov 2003, 14:19 (Ref:789549)

I'm with Stephen, I think your dad meant pneumatic valves.

Glen · 20 Nov 2003, 14:23 (Ref:789554)

All current F1 engines have air (actually nitrogen) pressure instead of conventional springs to return the valves. There may well be further developments, such electromagnetic valve actuation, to come - but the rules would need to be changed to ban them.

Irv the Swerve · 20 Nov 2003, 14:24 (Ref:789556)

yeah but, haven't pneumatic valves been around for a while...

**Stephen Green** · 20 Nov 2003, 14:25 (Ref:789557)

Yes for some years. Weren't they introduced by Renault originally?

Irv the Swerve · 20 Nov 2003, 14:29 (Ref:789561)

hmm, I thought it was Honda, but I don't know why I think that.

**Stephen Green** · 20 Nov 2003, 14:34 (Ref:789566)

You could well be right Irv. It was during the time that both Honda and Renault were at the top of their tree I seem to remember (Thinks back to the days of Senna/Mansell/Prost and pneumatic valves)

ASCII Man · 20 Nov 2003, 14:38 (Ref:789570)

All F1 engines have used pneumatic valves for some time, first introduced by Renault on the late versions of the their V6 turbo engine

jawa · 20 Nov 2003, 15:03 (Ref:789595)

Back in 1986, I believe...

Or, erm, possibly '85!

**Adam43** · 20 Nov 2003, 15:36 (Ref:789640)

'86 seems about right for pneumatic. Electromagnetic valves keep being mentioned (over the last two or three years) as the next step. No one has made the step yet in any racing (AFAIK).

More generally, the new Merc engine didn't ever race because it was designed specifically for the MP4-18. Although they didn't stand still on the 17s engine (sorry don't know the Ilmor specification numbers of the top of my head).

Irv the Swerve · 20 Nov 2003, 15:38 (Ref:789641)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
(sorry don't know the Ilmor specification numbers of the top of my head).

give David St.Hubbins some time....he'll get them for you.

**Adam43** · 20 Nov 2003, 15:42 (Ref:789650)

I have no doubt...

spearce · 20 Nov 2003, 15:54 (Ref:789669)

Adam, with e/magnetic valves you wouldn't need a camshaft either ? Also the valve lift could be varied and do the 'throttle' job as well ? Trouble is, so far, the size and weight of all the kit makes it not exactly the ticket for a modern F1 engine.

Irv the Swerve · 20 Nov 2003, 16:22 (Ref:789699)

Quote:

Originally posted by spearce
Also the valve lift could be varied and do the 'throttle' job as well ?

I thought this was already possible - maybe not to the degree of doing the job of the throttle though.

As an aside, did they not used to use electromagnetic clutches in the recent past - I'm not sure now that they have got childproof gearchanges, but I'm fairly sure the old seven speed paddle shift used an electromagnetic as it was the quickest.

Jukebox · 20 Nov 2003, 16:43 (Ref:789724)

It was Renault and later Cosworth, anyway i've mention this here

'But then no seal is perfect and some leakages are expected, so the racecars carry a reservoir. From the reservoir it’ll provide each of the valve spring cylinders... via a main ring and keeps them all topped up (double valve springs mounted one inside the other'

Is the 'main ring' your dad was talking about David?

**Adam43** · 20 Nov 2003, 17:00 (Ref:789750)

Quote:

Originally posted by spearce
Trouble is, so far, the size and weight of all the kit makes it not exactly the ticket for a modern F1 engine.

yes, especially as the vogue at the moment is all about reducing the c.o.g. All that weight at the top on an engine

cannardd · 20 Nov 2003, 17:24 (Ref:789775)

Quote:

Originally posted by Irv the Swerve
I thought this was already possible - maybe not to the degree of doing the job of the throttle though.

The latest BMW road engines already do this.
Although they still have a camshaft (obviously!).
http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/valvetronic.htm

**Bononi** · 20 Nov 2003, 18:47 (Ref:789837)

McLaren developing an engine ? I thought Mercedes was their suppliers !

ascarracinguk · 20 Nov 2003, 19:33 (Ref:789869)

hold on a sec...if it isnt against the rules then why are mac expecting it to get banned???

**Adam43** · 20 Nov 2003, 19:41 (Ref:789875)

if you can copy a new design (easily) copy it, if not get it banned...

Sodemo · 20 Nov 2003, 21:14 (Ref:789977)

Quote:

Originally posted by ascarracinguk
hold on a sec...if it isnt against the rules then why are mac expecting it to get banned???

Because Ferrari didn't think of it...

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