How many people have F3000's?

[Mackmot]

How many people on this forum know of someone with an F3000 who would like to race it in a series dedcated to older F3000. There must be hundreds about just like the one in my workshop but no where to race it except Euroboss which costs loads and you cannot win.

If people are interested it may be worth getting a championship organised. Lets make this a meeting point.

[JohnMiller]

Realistically, how much can it cost, if there was somewhere to run? I've always fancied an older Reynard but then Boss went all European which put me right off. I like UK 1 day meetings!

[ss_collins]

whilst your not sure mackmot I'll borrow it for Lydden if theats ok?

[marcus]

well while I certainly dont have any of the following.

1.A F3000 car
2.Money to run it
3.Ability not to stuff it in a fence


I would certainly attend a meeting of such.

I think F3000 chassis from about 1987 right through to 1994 or 1995 looked great

[Peter Mallett]

The originals were just second hand F1 chaissi so with the early cars you get 2 classes. Strict F3000 and ex F1.

What would be the costs?

[Mackmot]

I think John is right that it should be a UK series with 1 day meets. It costs enough to run them anyway so no one would want high travel expenses.

The car we have is a T91/50 Lola owned by John Roberts(Formula 4 racer). Its a goddam sexy beast but Euroboss is just too expensive for him to run in and he has never got used to driving it properly because it becomes even more scary when F1 cars go flying past.

[andy97]

You could also have a class for the 3 different eras of one make Lola chassis from the last few years - there must be loads of them about with bucket loads of spares. Probably pretty cheap to buy once F3000 & Euro 3000 dies but running costs.....I read a while ago that Paul Stoddart spent £14,000 every time he ran one of the Tyrrells that he bought to run in EuroBOSS. Still, people seem to have enough money to run exotic cars with DFVs & Judds on the hills or in Historic Group C etc so perhaps there would be enough deep wallets around.

I just think that the place for this initially is EuroBOSS and that they should deliver the one day UK races that John Miller requires.

[JohnMiller]

I always reckoned that a Reynard 91 to 95 with a Mugen (or maybe a Judd) with some slightly softer cams would not cost too much to run.
You can find, I am sure, a Lola 96/50 chassis for less than the cost of a similarly aged Formula Ford Zetec.

[JohnMiller]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
The originals were just second hand F1 chaissi so with the early cars you get 2 classes. Strict F3000 and ex F1.

The first year, 1985 was dominated by bespoke Ralt and March designs. People did run Tyrells 012s, Arrows A6s and Williams FW08s but they weren't a lot of cop although I do remember Roberto Moreno getting the Barron Tyrrell going quite well.

[jamesl]

How about going back to a libre series?
To try and get more cars out forget running the correct peroid engines.For example, late F2's and F3000 could use a Sierra Cosworth (Turbo?) engine and could get 300+ reliable bhp. Thats got to be a more realistic route than running BMW M12/7 or DFV's and a hell of alot more affordable.
If those with "proper" engines don't like it make a separate class for them.Surely its better to race togeather in a strong series than to hang apart?

[JohnMiller]

I seriously considered putting an AJP V8 into an F3000 chassis. The one in my Tiv went and sounded like a DFV.

[driftwood]

There is room for Libre racing in UK but Racmsa see libre as a bad word
hence no libre racing but u can have single seatre races upto 2 or 2.5 litres ie lydden have a series croft tried it a few yrs ago Penbrey had a few races over the years but as 1 offs namely the welsh drivers championship race
the 70`s & 80`s where great times for libre events in england and scotland
then we also had Gp8 & Aurora which is now replaced with BOSS
the early yrs of Boss were ideal a sit was a libre event then f1 cars came into it cost rise speeds rise and the budget driver drops out and has an obsolete car
HSCC has DBT which is in essence historic libre racing or historic Boss which ever way u look at it u get big cars and little cars racing together
but lets live in the real world F3000 cars are not cheap to run with correct motors yes libre allowed f3000 type cars to run with cossy turbo chevy small block jag v12 rover V8 TVR AJP type motors but many of this type of car went into the sprinting world- yes i know its not racing but its the only place u can justify having a big f3000 type car and economically run it with astreet car based motor
I think the killer will be RACmsa not the drivers
do u guys know how much it costs to put an event on? either for 1 day or just the 1 race 10 - 20 lapper
u need 20 cars on the grid to justify having a race these days hence the RAC wanting to strike out certain formulas or merge where possible
even if the economics of it where balanced u need to get 20 guys out there with cars running on the track not sitting in the lock up half done or " sorry cant race got a BBQ to go to this sunday"
im not a kill joy sadly a realist ive been down this route either running my own car or trying to gee up car owners to come to events and ive spoken to clubs to ask for a race on their schedule and u can never get the drivers out to balance the books
it is a real chicken and egg situation
Boss offers the only place to run the big cars in UK ( europe has boss races and Interserie events) whether its a 1987 march with cossy turbo or 91 lola mugen or 94 f1 car

[dereklola]

This thread rings a bell with me - but races in the UK won't help because I'm in America!

I've got a T91/50 out of Japan (Toshio Suzuki's old car) but because of the cost (a) buying and (b) maintaining the DFV it ran I'm putting in a Buick V6 Indy Light engine. Most of the cars in our BOSS series are Indy Lights cars anyhow since that series closed down couple of years ago.

If anyone wants Alex Zanardi's 1991 Reynard F3000 car it's for sale by a friend of mine - has Formula Holden engine since it last raced down under.

Derek

[kickstart]

Personally I would love to race single seaters with 300 - 400bhp. I did explore the possibility of racing in BOSS with an old F3000 but the costs of running a DFV, given the need for some testing to get used to the power hike from my F Renault, were too much.
The trouble with a Libre type series is that the cars are so unequal which can mean a race without any real racing.
I am quite attracted to the idea of adding a class to Monoposto - Mono 3000 - which would allow production based engines of up to 3 Litres, with any chassis including F3000. That is something that I would love to do and could afford to do.

[driftwood]

a pal of mine has 3 f3000 cars for sale 2 can come with engines for BOSS type racing but its the same old story ££ to run the cars
Mono series will not embrace the bigger f3000 type car as its agaianst the principles of cheap motor sport and using road car steel block motors
they have lost the plot allowing in dallara f3 cars when pre 95 f3 cars where adequate for their formula

USA Boss series is predominantly east coast as west coast dont seem to get the numbers like the east coast
they run indy cars as well as Lights f1 some Fatlantics and the odd F3000/Holden car and a few IRL cars have entered the scene recently
what ever yr views are at least there is somewhere to run these cars and its better to go join them than try to create another series for 5 cars to run in

[flatbroke]

Engines are the most expensive part of running F1/f3000 in boss and old champ cars are cheap 100 000 dollars complete ready to run and I am not talking 91 cars but 1999 onwards.

[kickstart]

Flatbroke, you could buy an excellent F3000 rolling chassis for £25k and if you could put a production based 3 litre lump in it, I would guess that the complete car would cost circa £30k - less than a front running ARP F3 car and I would imagine a grat deal more fun to drive.

[flatbroke]

Maybe but to fit the engine buy the engine do the wiring is very expensive.

[driftwood]

indy cars are not as cheap to run as people think still a pro race series engine and chassis
may have more miles between rebuilds but they are still a pro race motor and will cost ££ like f1 f3000 motors
also indy car is a heavey car and a good driver in f3000 will still beat an indy car

[andy97]

Originally posted by JohnMiller
I seriously considered putting an AJP V8 into an F3000 chassis. The one in my Tiv went and sounded like a DFV.

A series for such cars was mooted a few years ago, indeed Ian Flux tested a prototype for Motorsport News, but sadly nothing ever came of it. "Formula TVR" could make quite a "cheap class" within EuroBoss (its all relative!)until it built its own following but it would probably need some support from TVR to make it a reality.

[JohnMiller]

Forget it then, mind you back then I decided that if I was going to have an F3000 I'd have an F3000 - not a chassis powered by something else.

[driftwood]

TVR car was built for TVR`s peter wheeler it was 93d with AJP motor in it
Flux tested car in MN article around 94 or 95
car was then mothballed at TVR factory as the car cost more than Wheeler expected it to
but having said that the 1st car always costs more than u expect then the rest are cheaper to convert
i know where the jigs are but can u buy AJP motor on its own? i doubt it

[andy97]

Driftwood

Thanks for the background info. Your comment about getting hold of an AJP motor backs up my feeling that the TVR factory would have to get involved. Its probably too late but it could have made a really good series. Mind you, with the down turn in popularity of the TVR Tuscan series, there could be a window of opportunity...!!

[driftwood]

I know Wheeler at TVR was a bit ****ed over the f3000 car i doubt he will be interested in being pro active u could get ajp motor from scrap yards
to run f3000 car thru the air u need 450 hp so ur talking rover v8 type motors or V6 ford chevy lumps and then u need to do a fitting kit Formula holden in Oz run v6 street car engine goving 350-380 hp max but they have low down torque and do strip gearboxes
yes some f3000 cars are obsolete and cheap ie £5-9k max fro 85-89 era cars but will people really fit these motors econimically and run the cars- i doubt it many think they can build a car up for under £15k but there is more to fitting these odd motors to race cars than meets the eye ie wiring loom ecu dry sump kits and oil pumps to design plus yr fitting kit starter system
im not looking to be a party pooper im just a realist these things never work out as you plan them go ask a mono posto racer what he budgets for fitting a motor to f3 chassis then ask what it actually cost !!

[dereklola]

I agree with Driftwood "..... there is more to fitting these odd motors to race cars than meets the eye ....." and "..... ask a monoposto racer what he budgets .....then ask what it actually cost....."

Please stop reminding me. I bought a Lola T9150 for a song and a Buick V6 Indy Lights engine (complete with Cosworth pumps, like a DFV etc) for a similar song. I haven't even started the real installation job yet but I've already spend as much as again just on miscellaneous stuff.

But think what I'm saving by not being able to race it for a couple of years.