NVQ in marshalling

[Andrew Palmer]

I read with interest an article in Motorsport News about a NVQ for Incident Marshals.

Has any body else got a thought on this? I for one hope it does not effect the current grading system.

[JimW]

Mike Farnworth was doing something along these lines.

Personally I am sceptical. (But then, I always am. )

Regards

Jim

[Andrew Palmer]

The article does name Mike as helping in the setting up of the NVQ.

[F1JordanUk]

Yeah, For some reason, I don't quiet know why, But I don't think it will be a good idea, but can't put my finger on why?!!

[Dave Brand]

Having talked to Mike about it at the Oulton F3/GT meeting, I believe that it will be a good thing for marshal training in general, not just the Myerscough students.

Note the key sentence in the MN report: 'Myerscough has attracted government funding.......'

[chezza]

I'm not sure that this is a good idea...starting to turn marshalling into a professional type of thing...don't think that we should go down this route.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by chezza
I'm not sure that this is a good idea...starting to turn marshalling into a professional type of thing...don't think that we should go down this route.

Can't have professionalism creeping, in can we? Lets' just muddle along - we'll get it right eventually.

Maybe we should hold back on the criticism until we actually know the full details?

[Tony_J]

Whilst I understand that in an ideal world a 'professional' certificate may be of benefit I think it should be the very last thing on the agenda when viewed against declining marshal numbers. The introduction of the MSA licence back in the early 90's upset a lot of people and I still have mine back to '93 tucked away somewhere gathering dust - I now don't bother. I can't believe that other than an 'elite' group with more spare time than the average marshal would want to get involved in an NVQ and the additional work that involves, unless of course professional qualifications equals professional employment and we all know where that thread leads to.

[Richard Sneader]

I have known about this idea for a couple of years and how much effort Mike F is putting into helping sort the marshal numbers crisis. I suggest you stop mokcing this idea unless you really know what you are talking about. Yes its knew and we do not know what is happening with it yet. Give it a chance. If you think its a bad idea please talk to Mike F as I am sure he would be interested in your thoughts instead of slagging it off on here hiding behind a sudo name and key board.
I thought we are supposed to help sort marshalling out not shoot down every idea.
RS

[Sheila M]

As I understand it, this is a purely voluntary thing and doesn't apply to just incident marshalling - it can apply to any of the disciplines. As far as I know it won't affect what grade you hold but could hold you in good stead for moving further up the ladder should you so wish.

I haven't had all the details yet so I will reserve judgement. On the face of it though, it sounds like a very good idea, especially for people like me who haven't got many qualifications in anything. It would be good to have a qualification for my hobby!

[Andrew Palmer]

I do not want to be seen to slag off Mike and his hard work. I know the time and effort he has put in to the incident training vehicle. But as I under stand it a NVQ is a National Vocational Qualification which means it is workplace gained with the student showing evidence to cover set criteria how is this to work at a circuit. One final point is are all current marshals to be given grandfather rights and be awarded this NVQ ad hock or are we going to have to work at it.

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by Andrew Palmer
I do not want to be seen to slag off Mike and his hard work. I know the time and effort he has put in to the incident training vehicle. But as I under stand it a NVQ is a National Vocational Qualification which means it is workplace gained with the student showing evidence to cover set criteria how is this to work at a circuit. One final point is are all current marshals to be given grandfather rights and be awarded this NVQ ad hock or are we going to have to work at it.

Andrew see my previous post - it is purely voluntary, I think. And it does not apply solely to incident marshalling as far as I understand.

Why don't we wait and see before we start knocking it?

[Kicking-back]

Anything which raises standards has to be a good thing.

Getting precious about things and allowing fear of the unknown to result in negativity is not a good thing.

[Peter Harding]

For some time we have been looking at where we can encourage youth into our discipline and I have often bumped into Mike at Uni stands at Autosport show.

These people are doing automotive engineering and clearly have an interest in motorsport so its logical to get them to come along and help as well as get more knowledge for their course.

As an extra insentive it was suggested that the work done marshalling/knowledge gained should get some course recognition and an NVQ is one way of doing this. This could also include assignment in scrutineering as well as all disciplines of marshalling.


I know many of these lads will go into other areas but if we get a small percentage hooked on marshalling its worthwhile.

[Cynic]

Whilst I like others don't want to slag off anything that may encourage new faces into the sport, I do think a lot of the arguements here have some merit. Regardless of whether it is volountary or not, an NVQ is intended to have some value as a professional qualification. I can't see anyone spending six months (including a number of days in the bank, according to the article) studying for something that is not going to be any use. Whilst I support what Mike is trying to achieve, if this is not carefully governed it will lead to professionalism via the back door. And as someone else has pointed out, if it does take off, where does it leave us? Suppose the MSA made this a mandatory thing? Would we get it awarded retrospectively? Something tells me probably not.

[Nadine J Lewis]

As far as I understand this has nothing to do with the MSA, but purely a way of getting students already involved in a motorsport related course to do some marshalling and get recognition for it on their course. If after that some of them then become full time marshals is that not a good thing? These students are ones who could one day be the Ross Brawn's of this world and if they have had an insight into all aspects of marshalling and safety is this not a good thing - don't knock it until you know the full facts!!!

[Stephen Green]

Normally in business if new regulations are introduced then existing workers are 'grandfathered' in to make everything equal.

I know Mike very well and can only believe he is doing this for the good of not only motorsport but marshalling as well. Lets see what he has to say before we knock it too much ok?

[chezza]

Thank you cynic, that is what i was trying to say earlier but didn't put it very well, as normal.

In a way i think it is a good idea as these students may decide to stay on the bank after this side of their course has finished.

Will be interesting seeing it work alongside the current grading system...what grade will the NVQ be equivalent too??

[ss_collins]

This is not the first time this scheme has been tried - back in the late 1990's a new scheme by east surrey college promoted club motorsport as a profession - the course (a BTEC in Motorsport Engineering) also was planned to feature an NVQ in Marshalling (both Rally and Race) but the marshalling NVQ bit didn't work because the students were far too busy running thier race team - but the course did get written and the students did start it but it was never finished. I imagine that somewher the whole course is sat gathering dust

[Tony_J]

For the benefit of Richard Sneader The name is Tony Johnston and I have been marshalling for 20+ years so get of your soap box

[mark_l]

Want to see Tony in Action, find the pic of Russel Spence vaulting the catch fencing in a BTCC Renault Laguna. Tony is the one in the white cap taking a few steps sideways!

[Tracey]

An NVQ is a work based qualification requiring the collection of work based evidence signed by the employer and used towards the building of a portfolio. The portfolio can also contain simulations (centre based and marked exams), assignments, interviews and lots of other things.

However, you don't actually have to do the job - I know people who have got through the same NVQ I've just done with NO work based evidence. As a result, it doesn't necessarily mean anyone who takes this course will ever marshal.

[Sheila M]

An MSA Trainer friend of mine (who is not registered and therefore cannot post) sent me the following e-mail earlier today:

"Mike F is National Training Officer for the Marshals Club, and there are a lot of licenced trainers who themselves have attended Training for Trainers courses. They all work hard to provide training days at venues all over the country.
Sometimes they wonder if it was worth the effort when response is a poorly attended course.
Perhaps the reason more people don't attend is that they are frightened of the unknown, and would rather muddle along. (It seems so from this thread).
The trainers do not know it all and usually they also learn something at the training sessions.
Mike is to be applauded for his efforts on our behalf instead of all this negativity.
As a trainer, he will get my backing, and if the course raises the profile of Marshals - brilliant.
Also if, after over 30 years marshalling, I end up with an NVQ so much the better, but there again people always said I was a slow learner.
Remember, the NVQ is not the end, merely the launch pad."

I personally think the best course of action for us all is to sit back and wait for the "official" word on what this "qualification" entails rather than pre-judging.

[Richard Sneader]

As a potential trainer(going through the MSA at the moment) and 20 yrs+ as a marshal I will support any new initiative to help marshalling and Mike knows and has my full support. Thats another step on my soap box( getting vertigo now)
RS

[Tony_J]

My 'negativity' is in no way aimed at MF who has dedicated so much of his spare time and not so spare time to the sport we all love. I readily admit that I would not have put in the amount of time effort that Mike & the other trainers have.
It is the principle of NVQs and its 'I have a piece of paper which says I can do it' approach. Like many innovations in education, [such as the Initial Teaching Alphabet that some older teachers may remember] they seem to have disappeared into the morass of 'educational innovations' spewed out over many years [and yes I am qualified to comment on the education system]. Perhaps it is time we tightened up what we have in training terms so that the likes of Mike and other dedicated trainers are really appreciated for their efforts. Presumably we learn from our trainees, and short term marshals [ie those who attend a few meetings then depart] what they want and what is missing? Perhaps its the racing itself that's at fault? Many threads bemoan the absence of competition, thin grids, and boring racing etc over which we have no control.