yellow flag and lap times

[cdn girl]

Hi folks did anyone watch the Brazilian GP today and notice that a fastest lap was set while yellow flags were waving.What ever happened to lifting while there are yellow flags waving?

[Andrew Gunnell]

Which incident were the yellow flags out for?

[F1JordanUk]

Think they were out for Mark Webber, any driver caught setting there fastest lap (or say, within 10% of there normal lap time) should get at least a one race ban, MS did the same in practice at Monaco too.

[cdn girl]

The yellow flags wre out for Nick Heidfeld's Jordon.The transmission died.Barrichello set a fasted lap while marshals were trackside removing Heidfeld's car

[petestenning]

For our own safety we should exclude any driver setting his or her fastest lap while under yellow flags if they cant do it under there own common sense. How many drivers have i heard say when trackside this is dangerous isnt it.
When we have not a car for some protection it is
If they lost the race and the points that go with they might realise the error of their ways.

We do a dangerous job because we like the sport, but when we see the top ie F1 getting away with it can we blame the club level for thinking it normal?

[whatapalaver]

I think we get confused by the difference between safety and TV schedules. For F1 the normal rules don't seem to apply. (It seems to help if you drive a red car too!!)

[DougK]

It was the same with crossing the white lines a few years ago - because drivers saw F1 Racers going four wheels over they thought it was ok for them to do the same.

You have to have common rules throughout.... the same with the flags - why do FIA rules have to differ, its stupid!

[malrsq]

I asked the powers that be at our circuit if they would observe the lap times of competitors under yellow to see if they were actually easing off while my guys were out recovering errant vehicles. Answer, Don't tell us how to run a meeting!
It seems marshal safety is not a factor with more than our circuits, you guys suffer this also. petestenning your idea is good.

[F1JordanUk]

Originally posted by malrsq
I asked the powers that be at our circuit if they would observe the lap times of competitors under yellow to see if they were actually easing off while my guys were out recovering errant vehicles. Answer, Don't tell us how to run a meeting!
It seems marshal safety is not a factor with more than our circuits, you guys suffer this also. petestenning your idea is good.

If thats there attitude you should seriously consider Marshalling at another circuit
Lee

[malrsq]

What, and leave the fight to others. Not me pal, I'm there for the long haul I'm afraid. Safety is the focus our crash rescue team has, and we will keep our voices loud and proud untill the right minds hear and take notice. We are a close knit bunch our crew, and if I did walk, my whole darn crew would come too. This is not about me, it's about the competitors, the spectators and the marshalls. We all go to the races for our own reasons and take what we enjoy from the events.
Our team take very seriously our role and so will keep highlighting aspects like the yellow flag rule to the administrators of the sport and ask for consistant rulings on infringements.

[Hepatic]

...and good on you too!

[malrsq]

You never know what is around the corner do you. I just recieved the latest Motorsport News, a mag from our national office of Motorsport New Zealand which goes to all competition licence holders, and no doubt Clerk of Course type ofice bearers I guess. In this there are the recent amendments to our Sports governing manual and one of the updates concerns the use of the yellow flag. Funnily enough it now mentions that Officials may use lap times when considering infringements. I'm staggered after being told by local track officials not to tell them how to run a meeting, and within months the very suggestion I made becomes a rule amendment. Is there a big ear up there somewhere?? hrug:

[mitzi dude]

This yellow flag thing is interesting.Im the cheif flaggy at malrsq's circuit,and see all types of stupid stuff passing under yellow, not slowing down etc.I allways tell my guys to help and watch the backs of our crash crew guys,and you get some drivers still in race mode not all drivers are like that just the odd few.These guys feel safer with the 2 yellow flags covering them. amd the new ruling thats just come in here About time.

[Doc Hollywood]

Hey Guys,

Take what we had recently at an event in Mondello. Formula Sheane Rover (1800cc single seaters), Car stricken on the main strait, the top five cars continued to slip-stream at full throttle UNDER the car as it was being lifted over the barrier via teleporter. This was caught on our brand spanking new camera system and because lap times were 0.08 seconds slower than the fastest lap. No action was taken. Despite four reports each signed by a member of the rescue unit dealing with the incident! Myself included!

[jim69]

I think if Observers consider that cars are not slowing down for yellow flags, and Race control will not check lap times, then ask for a race stop or safety car. The powers that be will soon get fed up stopping races. Maybe then they will start enforcing the yellow flag rules. The blue book used to say under a waved yellow flag "drivers must slow down and be prepared to stop". What a joke.

[garry heale]

i think it's got to the point were observers should start to report cars not slowing down,this is not a finger point at observers,i'am a blackbadge,but i do know some who won't report cars for this ,stating "well there racing"fine till one of those "racers" come off into your team.we have all got to be more responable ,not only to the safty of the drivers, but more importantly to oursleves and fellow marshals.we don't have the yellow & black flag anymore,thay still want us to move cars etc,so lets all start by reporting cars who show no respect for the rules of the game

[DougK]

Can't the incidents be reported to the driving standards observers so the relevant drivers are watched more closely at future events. Also maybe after the race/lunch its a good idea to polietly seek out the driver and point out what you feel he/she was doing wrong, they may have not seen yellow flags or something. I suppose it all depends on who the Chief Marshal and CoC are. I have known a Chief Marshal to cause a lot off fuss at one meeting when he felt his marshals were at risk and refused to "play" until the CoC sorted the driver out! It had the desired effect.

[malrsq]

Doug, ta mate, that's a very good point you mention and one I will use for future occurances.
Flag Marshalls have the lives of all of our rescue team in your hands when we are on or close to the racing line recovering a stricken vehicle. We watch for this to be waved before coming out of hiding, and the more obvious you can make it, by waving vigoursly or whatever helps us, and then helps the officials if they are dealing with an infringement.

[blueflagger]

In my area, we do report cars that we can catch who are going too fast through a yellow flag. Two witnesses can cause a penalty that usually includes the driver having to work the banks for a day to find out what we are talking about.

The problem is that it is all relative. What is too fast to you, might not be to another worker. Our yellow flag rules don't say to lift. Just caution, no passing for stationary flag and extreme caution, no passing. Extreme caution is usually cited as "be prepared to stop if necessary."

Just over a year ago we had a rookie driver who lost control under a yellow and managed to send two of our rescue crew to the hospital, one with a broken leg. The driver was told 'not your fault'. Boy, were we livid over that one!

[ss_collins]

In thoery its possible to set a fastest lap whilst correctly observing a caution - though It would have to be a long track!

[malrsq]

The ruling in NZ is for a stationary yellow; Reduce Speed. Do not Overtake. There is a hazard beside the track. Waved; Reduce Speed. Do not overtake.Be preared to change direction or follow an unusual line. There is a hazard on the circuit. Double yellow; same, and be prepared to stop. The circuit is wholly or partially blocked.
I can so understand your anger at the driver not being penalised for taking out marshalls under yellow conditions. However I guess one could argue there may be mitigating circumstances etc etc.
I tried the suggestion for errant drivers to spend a day marshalling, but it was not appreciated by the track management.
"ss Collins", very dubious being able to set fastest time under a yellow condition. Even if the yellow area is short, these days in virtually all classes, racing is close and competitive, and any slackening of speed should show in lap times. The only exception I could envisage is if a competitor has had poor laps and suddenly gets their act together and one lap gets it all right despite a period of observing a yellow. I remain the sceptic.hrug:

[Woolley]

Sorry, there are NO mitigating circumstances for failing to observe a yellow flag. If you go off while it's out, you weren't obeying it - ie slowing down suffiently to take the appropriate action.

[MacGWC]

I agree with Woolley, there is no acceptable reason for failing to observe a yellow flag that has been out for sufficient time to be seen and for drivers to back off. No excuse at all for not backing off when marshals are on the circuit. Similarly, I cannot see it is possible to both observe yellow flag rules and set the fastest lap on the same lap. Most Clerks I know do check lap times in such instances and take appropriate action where necessary.

Also, Clerks should always go back to the Observer concerned, telling the Observer what action has been taken and give reasons why. If in any doubt before taking action, Clerks should remember that phones work in both directions and ask the Observer to clarify any points not made clear in the initial report, especially considering reports are not always written in the best of writing conditions trackside!