Who is really a paid Driver in the Series

[sgjb]

After being apart of many threads I thought this question might be interesting. The relationship between sponsors and drivers is always a fun topic.

What major sponsors have come because of the drivers and which ones belong to the team. It's interesting to hear that even drivers like Damatta cannot get a ride unless sponsorship is found or is brought to the team. Did Cialis come to Newmann Hass because of Bruno or is it there sponsor?

From what I feel there is really only about 5 paid drivers left for next year at this point.

Paul Tracy_Sebastion Bourdais_Bruno Junquiera_Alex Tagliani and A J?

Let me know if I am wrong. It really is a shame that only drivers with money can get a ride. Doesn't make for the best drivers in the world competing but in the face of tough times it is what it is.

[BootsOntheSide]

I don't think Wilson brought any money to Conquest, and Pat didn't last season, but I think that's about it. More should emerge next year, but it'll be less than half the field, at best.

[Kicking-back]

Generally, most of the drivers will receive a salary from their sponsors.

I'd imagine only NH and Forsythe as teams paid their drivers salary this year.

[indycool]

I doubt Wilson brought money to Conqueste but someone did for him. Conqueste didn't have the money to pay anyone.

Jourdain's deal with RuSport, he was quoted as saying recently, was not contingent on Gigante's sponsorship, so he might be getting paid by someone in a deal last winter to keep him in the series over the long term instead of going with Rahal when Rahal bolted.

Other than that, can't see much past sgjb's list.

[Snrub]

I keep bringing this up, but the way drivers rides were paid for this year was by the OWRS guys basically paying for a seat at any team to field driver A-T. As such I think most of the drivers were paid to drive, it was probably just a nominal amount so they could feed themselves. If our question is, "who was paid a competitive salary," then it's probably PT, Pat, Junky, Bourdais, Dominguez, RHR and AJ. Thougths?

Generally, most of the drivers will receive a salary from their sponsors.

Do you mean their personal sponsors or do you mean as an example that Gulf Stream was paying Vasser a salary? I would tend to think that the pure pay drivers like Lavin were paid a salary by their sponsor and perhaps Forsythe didn't pay him one.

[indycool]

This is just a deduction from how the Vasser/PKV situation went down and bits and pieces of what was said publicly but it seems like Vasser might have driven for a piece of team ownership in '04. Don't know what Gulfstream's deal as a sponsor might have been, but Kalkhoven has a Gulfstream jet which may have been a part of it.

[Snrub]

I hadn't heard that, so perhaps Vasser wasn't the best example. I was meaning using that as a generic example.

[indycool]

Understand, Snrub. They seem to work a lot of different ways and your thought is one. The way I've heard it negotiated is "we'll give you 'X' bucks and a free driver for sponsorship."

[Boli-Nica]

Paul Tracy_Sebastion Bourdais_Bruno Junquiera_Alex Tagliani and A J?

Thats about right.

I did hear that Wilson did get paid to race.

[Kicking-back]

AFAIK, Wilson is paid by Jonathan Palmer, rather than by Conquest.

[BootsOntheSide]

That could be it KB, so he's effectively a 'cash-neutral' driver, not bringing or taking any cash from Conquest. That's a good deal for all parties, as he's fast and not wealthy.

[Snrub]

So...Why does no one think Dominguez and RHR were paid in 2004? They were the only team with cars that appeared to be fully sponsored. Even NH's cars had only primary sponsors.

[indycool]

Just thoughts and speculation but Dominguez probably came with the Herdez sponsorship in some form and RHR could've been at least a partial ride-buy.

[Snrub]

...but if the team was flush with money why would RHR be a partial pay ride? Obviously the Mexican sponsorship was contingent on Dominguez, but it's probably symantics as to who actually paid the driver.

[indycool]

Probably, but was the Herdez sponsorship enough to pay for two cars and two drivers, one of which was NOT Mexican? I doubt it.

[BootsOntheSide]

Precisely IC. And now that Herdez have gone, the entire team is on a very unstable footing. RHR has more chance of returnign than Mario, but there's no guarantee of a 2-car team from Keith Wiggins, which would be a real shame as they've come on so strongly this year.

[Snrub]

If Herdez's sponsorship wasn't enough to cover RHR, why did they do the extensive paintup his car in the exact same manner as Dominguez's? Doesn't make sense. Normally in such situations the second car will get a lesser paintjob, not a whole theme. Themes seem to cost more than pure logos. Correct me if I'm wrong, but RHR's addition to the Herdez lineup was annouced fairly early last year. That would likely indicate that he wasn't a subsidized driver like the others who were announced at the last minuite.

Ofcourse Wiggan's team is unstable after Herdez's departure, but of all the teams in the field, they would seem to be the most likely to be get sponsorship, at least for one car. I have a hard time believing that no one will step up to sponsor Dominguez. Recall that even the Midland F1 team wants him because they think he's very likely to be able to draw sponsorship. RHR's daddy brought what most thought was a fairly small amount of money to American Spirit. Boots are you assuming he's more likely at Wiggans because of that nominal amount of money over Dominguez? One of the other sponsors, McCormicks seemed to be replaced late season, but judging by the logo I suspect it's simply a different product by the same company. I think McCormicks is both a personal and team sponsors of Dominguez.

[indycool]

Snrub, to make it look good....there was a lot of that in '04. And they didn't have another major sponsor. And Herdez owned the team.

[Snrub]

they didn't have another major sponsor.

That's simply not true:



If those don't work: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=368545

I have a really hard time believing that Herdez Competition was struggling for money in 2004. By old CART standards they look to have some good sponsorship. By IRL standards they certainly look to have some good sponsorship. Was there some "make things look good", going on in 2004? Yes, but I fail to see a reasonable case against Herdez.

[BootsOntheSide]

Whether they struggled for money in 2004 isn't entirely relevant. Herdez threw in the majority of the money for Mario's car, and they're gone now. Ryan paid towards his drive out of the family fortune. As it stands,a ll the fundign would have to be diverted to Ryan's car to get anything on track, and that could mean some sponsors getting less coverage for the smae money, which they udnerstandably wouldn't like. As it stands there's no guarantee of the team continuing, though I suspect they will.

[Snrub]

Herdez Competition's auxilary sponsorship in 2004 DOES have a very substantial impact on their 2005 situation. Take Herdez sponsorship out of the picture and they still have a number of sponsors and would probably be better off than a number of other teams. Is it enough to pay for everything? Probably not. What it does mean is that it is possible that one of these sponsors might up their sponsorship and/or is an indication that they have a good chance at getting other sponsorship. The past is a good indication of the future.

The other reason it's relative is for this discussion: When you make claims such that RHR's car was paid for by his family "fortune" it is part of the credibilty of your arguement. My understanding in 2003 was that his family could not be considered to have a "fortune" and it was a small amount relative to the costs of fielding him at ASTJ. Have you read/heard otherwise from a semi-credible source? You're also saying the majority of the Herdez money was for Dominguez and RHR's car wasn't fully funded. Again, where's that coming from?

[jjspierx]

Nice use of the RX-7 test forum Snrub. Haven't been on there in a long while.

[indycool]

This is a question, not an answer or opinion. Does anyone know if the associate sponsors of Herdez Competition were connected with Herdez? And if so, will they remain if Herdez is "out" as a sponsor?