Cheating

[BillyT]

Well there appears to be lots of it going on but it finnaly seems the MSA are clamping down it which is definatly good for the sport.

Saw Christidoulou(sp?) lost his two championships because of Tyre issues and there was people disqualifyed for the wrong fuel.

I know lots of ways of people being able to cheat but does it happen where you race and what do think should be the punishments?

[speedy king]

I saw in karting magazine a while back that his tyres had been taken off to be examined. But what exactly can be done?! Surely they're just bought from Vega so nothing can be done?

Fuel dosen't suprise me. Again this has been publitised alot recently with Atol appearing in the same magazine describing things that some people (obviously not Atol but individuals) do to enhance performance however they proved that soem of the fuel boosters are extremely dangerous.

Not going to name names because it's not within my right and i don't have any hard proof but where i have been racing this year they never take fuel swabs after the race to check for enhancers. This was in Juniors, most Seniors do a very quick lap at about 35 seconds, 34.9 or 8 is extremely quick, however a Junior came along, dominated winning all heats and the final and set a rather suspicous Junior lap of 34.7 or something?! Explain how that could be legal when the Seniors lap record is held by a Super One racer.

Again, it could have been perfectly legal though i struggle to understand how a kart thats something like 3-4 hp down on the Seniors without the powervalve could lap that well

[Naaaaa]

Christidoulou is appealing against this and you are inocent till proven guilty i can not see strawberry leting him cheat he has to much to lose and the ability of the lad is masive tyre treatment or not.

[speedy king]

Been looking about on the internet and in Motorsport News about the case. Got to feel a bit sorry for the boy, ok, IF he did cheap on purpose then he deserves his one year ban which is being talked about. What i do feel sorry about is some of the comments made elsewhere on the internet from karters. Real hatred against him, he's only 15, and i'm sure a driver of his charecter has alot of adult pressure on him and he dosent make all the choices. If he does get a 1 year ban imagine how it will feel being back in a karting paddock, everyone hating you. His career MAY be over, certainly this is one big hole anyway

[BillyT]

I doubt a big team like Strawberry would let that sort of thing happen.

Now he has lost his two titles. I cant see where he would go from here because if he starts winning people would say its because he cheats.

[hmmmm]

how come he lost both titles they only took his tyre from one championship.

[hgmonaro]

Speedy, once upon a time we used to paint our tyres in some substance to make them SOFT... (was legal then) and I've heard of some exotic treatments, so there are things that could be tried on tyres to gain an advantage.

Having lost out due to a cheating occurance (that was picked up post race, but did effect my finishing position during racing) I think they deserve everything they get.

[nsm.racing]

hello to all. Having just read your posts i would like to say.
i think his has got what was coming to him the team was using a product called hot lap which made him do the fastest lap around lap 3 thats including 2 warm up laps and the rest of the flield on around lap 8/10. i have also heared that he may be banned for 3 years by the MSA.

[Tom Horley]

The fact that he had his fastest lap on lap3 is meaningless. He could have his pressures higher than the others and just have an extremely good set up that doesnt over heat the tyres by the end of the race.

I dont really think you can say his ability is massive even if he is cheating. There were many other drivers as quick as him at some rounds so THEY must be the ones that have massive ability! Unless of course everyone cheating which I highly doubt!

[Alex Hodgkinson]

everyone was cheating I guess then

What's this hot lap stuff do then? Soften tyres, give HP, or simply warp time?
As Tom said, when you set your fastest lap has very little meaning.

[speedy king]

My last race i set the fastest lap on lap 8, but i find i struggle in the first half..., think it's more to do with tyre pressures than anything.

I saw this 'Hot lap' stuff on DemonTweeks, thought it might be the product in question

[Dan Fielden]

Originally Posted by btracer

Well there appears to be lots of it going on but it finnaly seems the MSA are clamping down it which is definatly good for the sport.

I know lots of ways of people being able to cheat but does it happen where you race and what do think should be the punishments?

I'm afraid it is happenenig in our kart club and nothing is being done about it. This is just my feeling but the sooner that our club introduces the t1 engine rule for the pro kart class there will be alot of disqualifications and people being caught out cheating. There has been occasions were me and other members have been pased on a straight by a seemingly identically engined kart. When i say passed. I mean the driver making the menouvre and then being able to resume the racing line even tho i or other members are flat out.


I feel the M.S.A. should introduce 1-2 year bans for such cheating.

Your thoghts

[speedy king]

It's a difficult one, certainly i think there should be more lengthy bans introduced as mentioned above, though not enough clubs enforce strict enough testing. We have never had our tyres or fuel checked, however someone was excluded for having only three bolts in the airbox and one tie rap. And biggest problem (mianly Rotax) is sealed engines are very well however it has been said many times there are people who may do all sorts of things for the right money, then re-seal it and of course, onece it's re-selaed the scrutineers can't view the engine to check out to see if such things as re-boring has taken place.

The whole system seems to be in one huge pickle in my opinion.

Also, a one or two year ban SHOULD be enough to put anyone off who wants to get anywhere in Motorsport but unfortunately i still believe there will be the few that are so desperate for that perfect CV or win who will go the the furthest risks to achieve it.

Personally, i would find the humiliation of being publitised as being a 'cheat' and have the whole paddock looking down on me would be just as much if not more of a worse punishment than a one or two year ban.

[ukkartace]

hi guys, just read through all your posts. i think its kind of obvious that christo was cheating, this year. whether strawberry knew or not is another matter. but there is noway that he is that good - really. i've spoken to one of his old mechanics he'll tell you the truth and what he used to get upto like for example special volvo spark plugs etc. and about the tyre tampering, there is alot of things he could do, the most likely thing is dipping them in.. and yeah it gives you a considerable amount more of grip, its similar to the stuff they use at indoor circuits.
the way i see it is the only person these people are cheating is themselves, its kind of clear whats been going on and at the end of the day reading through your posts the rest of the paddock aren't interested their just getting on racing with the rest more honest bunch of the field. its these kind of people that are ruining karting and motorsport as people who dont have access to ''special'' components simply dont see the point is wasting their money trying to beat these people. personally i think its stupid how the MSA handle cheating in England, thier strict enough and theres always the case of dont let me see that again. then they wonder why the market for karting is so much better in europe and why all the top british drivers migrate abroad.

[ukkartace]

oops i meant to say their not strict enough - sorry

[BillyT]

But its got to far now and a mate who races in Europe said that if you not cheating then your not going to win. Sad but possible true?

[ukkartace]

not being rude mate but i think thats unfair. in europe you have controlled tyres, fuel, chasis at every race. theres only being one instance of cheating this year i know of - by coletti in junior. i think its more of a case of having the latest material and obviously normal people cant get hold of it unless they have the money, which i agree is unfair but at the end of the day that motor racing and quite often the best drivers do do well.
but i do see where your coming from karting is in a bit of a mess nowdays.

[Andrew Hornsey]

The problem with tyre testing is it costs a great deal of money to test a set. At club level, this is off putting, as it is the organising club that foots the bill.

Fuel testing can be done on site, but it then requires samples of fuel to be sent off for further testing should it be deemed illegal. This again is not too cheap.

Control Fuel and tyres seem the way to go, but again at club level, it is not really something that clubs can affoard.

[ukkartace]

yeah i definatley agree with you there. something definatley needs to be done though before it puts too many people of karting.

[BillyT]

Originally Posted by ukkartace

not being rude mate but i think thats unfair. in europe you have controlled tyres, fuel, chasis at every race. theres only being one instance of cheating this year i know of - by coletti in junior. i think its more of a case of having the latest material and obviously normal people cant get hold of it unless they have the money, which i agree is unfair but at the end of the day that motor racing and quite often the best drivers do do well.
but i do see where your coming from karting is in a bit of a mess nowdays.

I dont think I made my post properly clear. I meant that in the Uk there is so much cheating it has to be done. Not in Europe. From what I know about there is not much cheating going in Europe but Ollie you know more than me. I'm just going on what i've been told.

[speedy king]

Read in Karting Magazine that devices are being leased out to clubs which can detect if tyres have been tampered with. Certainly a step forward, and acts as a deterent if more than anything. At the weekend where i raced were marking up everyones tyres to make sure multiple sets were not being used, same rule as Super 1

[Alex Hodgkinson]

At fulbeck they came around and stamped up everyones tyres to stop people changing them, something I rarely see at club meetings.

Also someone at the end of each race had a tyre softness tester and a temperature gauge to check tyres with.

[crozier74]

We've had the tyre marking scheme in operation for more than a year at Larkhall, and it's also a regular occurance at Wigan and other tracks. It's a common sight to me now. Surprised you haven't seen much of it Alex, guess it's just up to the clubs, not quite the same standards across the boards it seems. Haven't seen these tyre sniffers in operation yet though.

[speedy king]

I strongly believe that just the risk of their pressence and the penalties is more than enough to put people off though

[hmmmm]

i have had my tyres stamped for a few years now at nearlly every includeing fulbeck last year. but it doesnt stop you from putting aditives in them. i was at pf in january where it was very cold and was working with someone who had a workshop there. which was heated thankfully but they was then going to stop us from starting the race as our tyes was warmer than everybody elses by 5degrees or so. They told us that thay suggest we work outside so that we don't get DQ. Big floor in the scheme to me.