2L N/A Prototypes

[Edmonton]

Would you like to see the ALMS etc start a class for 2L N/A prototypes like the class the world championship had. Could provide a pretty inexpensive way to race in the series.

In a way it would be like the late 60s early 70s.
P1=CompetitionSportsCar
P2=3LPrototype
P3=2LPrototype

What do you think?

[tblincoe]

unfortunately, any change to the LMP formula over the next 5 years would be disastrous after the recent changes we're still going through.

the current formula should be given a chance before any changes are made... the LMP2 class is flourishing, and the LMP1 category is poised for the same explosion in growth for late 2005 into 2006.

[Edmonton]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

unfortunately, any change to the LMP formula over the next 5 years would be disastrous after the recent changes we're still going through.

the current formula should be given a chance before any changes are made... the LMP2 class is flourishing, and the LMP1 category is poised for the same explosion in growth for late 2005 into 2006.

I didn't mean make any changes to P1/2 just add a P3 class. I ment that the format would be somewhat similar to the one they had during that time period.

[Fogelhund]

The last thing that the ALMS needs is another class.

What would be a great idea is an IMSA sanctioned support series, with cars at about the CSR level, that are designed to be relatively cheaply converted to LMP2 specs.

cue up Tim Northcutt here...

[WidespredPaddok]

2 classes of prototypes is already too many in my opinion. Isn't LMP2 supposed to be the inexpensive class?

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by WidespredPaddok

2 classes of prototypes is already too many in my opinion. Isn't LMP2 supposed to be the inexpensive class?

yup, and its done a pretty darn good job of balancing costs, competition, and technology i think! just look at the LMES LMP2 list!!

[skycafe]

The current LMP2 cars slot right into the same place that the old Group 5 and Group 6 two litre cars did, the current LMP2 cars offering more open engine options and allowing more variety.

If you ever get a chance to go see an HSR race you should see some Chevrons, Lolas and Gropas running around, as they are popular with the historic crowd and are still great fun to watch.

robert

[johnh875]

Absolutely skycafe, just yesterday at Philip Island historics there was a Chevron B8 with a 2L BMW engine. Absolute rocket & looks fantastic too.

[Nordic]

Lucky (or old enough) to have seen the original 2L class in there own series. IMHO these where the best looking open cars ever (apart from the 908). In the right condintions could challage the bigger engined cars when the two came together.

However like all good things, rising costs killed the class.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The last thing that the ALMS needs is another class.

What would be a great idea is an IMSA sanctioned support series, with cars at about the CSR level, that are designed to be relatively cheaply converted to LMP2 specs.

cue up Tim Northcutt here...

Gee...talk about a missed cue!!!


I've done some research in this area and have gotten great insight from builders who currently create competitive CSR level prototypes....

These builders would love to be involved in a stepping stone support series of this nature...and most, if not all that I corresponded with would love to eventually move up to the LMP2 level of competition.

There are two "gaps", if you will, that could be filled by such a Series:

1. It would give the builders an opportunity to take that transition step from CSR to LMP1 with a highly visible series that would also give them access to potential customers and competitors in GT1, GT2, SWC and Star Mazda that might be interested in moving up to the LMP ranks, and

2. It also would give GT drivers some on-track experience in a lighter, quick prototype that drive much differently than their current GT models.

The support series would be relatively inexpensive to race in, and with the proper corporate support from a title sponsor, could even be set up to have the Series winner and constructor compete the following year in LMP2....
and offer a second opportunity to the Star Mazda championship team to move up...

Thus, the series would be a direct "feeder series" for the LMP ranks in the ALMS, and it would generate more fan interest in the support series events, because the team and constructor results would lead to a program in the ALMS itself...

The builders I have corresponded with are very supportive of such a concept....and would be very willing to get on-board with it....

[Tim Northcutt]

Final Note:


The builders I did contact all have solid reputations for building high-quality sports racers that have won championships in the respective divisions in which they compete....

None were fly-by-night snake oil salesmen....

[GT-Eins]

These kind of cars yet exist - look at the club-racing scene in Europe with its CN and 2l C3-cars
For that level (Club-racing & semi-professional events) I think they are ok
For LM/LMES we do not need them because the LMP2-class is on the move
For ALMS? Maybe , but then they would be in real danger to loose the LM-Brand as the ACO would be again "not amused" about another deviation (like the MC12).
Wait a little until the LMP2-Boom reaches the ALMS too (there were supposed 6 Shaw-Chassis and the Panhard for the start of the season - did I remember that right?)

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by GT-Eins

For ALMS? Maybe , but then they would be in real danger to loose the LM-Brand as the ACO would be again "not amused" about another deviation (like the MC12).

Not that I'm advocating a P3 class for the ALMS, but you have to remember that IMSA had ACO approval for a GT3/S3 class of four-doors, as well, No one seemed to take the bait, I guess.

I suspect the ACO aren't fussy about creation of separate classes, only expansion of their defined ones.

[Tim Northcutt]

I am not proposing a "new class"....I am proposing a "support series" that has nothing to do with the ACO...

Once the Sports Racer support series champion gets the invite to move up to LMP2, his chassis, with the revisions, would have to meet ACO specs, go through a crash test, etc.

That is why I proposed a title sponsor for this support series, and their assistance in sponsoring the Series Champion in LMP2...

It is also why I proposed that the Star Mazda champ also be invited....

to provide capital for the constructor and the team to get the ACO approval and to build the number of chassis needed...they could fill the other seats with Paying drivers...

and yes...I have identified possible sponsors that would consider such a proposition....

[TRuss]

I'd rather see the resurection of Group C, maybe call it Group G (for green). Give the manufacturers some tech freedom to develop enviro friendly performance...maybe bio-etheanol. Or just bring back GTP. I can visualise it already.

[cybersdorf]

Yes let's go back to historic racing. Or better yet, wait for Porsche to do something! Sums up the current lack of a vision in prototype racing I think. In reality, neither the ACO, nor GrandAm, not FIA have a clue where this type of racing, and this kind of racecar, should be headed. Perhaps it is expendable these days.

Meanwhile at the club level, great fun is had by all.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

Yes let's go back to historic racing. Or better yet, wait for Porsche to do something! Sums up the current lack of a vision in prototype racing I think. In reality, neither the ACO, nor GrandAm, not FIA have a clue where this type of racing, and this kind of racecar, should be headed. Perhaps it is expendable these days.

Meanwhile at the club level, great fun is had by all.

This type of race car/racing is heading in the alternative power route, which is a unique selling point for the class.

[cybersdorf]

There was no alternative power in sight at Daytona.

[TheNewBob]

Would the pace set by an LMP3 class rank somewhere between GT1 and GT2? Good old Radicals spring to my mind here. Support races aren't thought through too well sometimes. For example just look at what happened to F1... Support races make the whole day worth being there as well as a main event. To have the support inter-linked with the main event sounds like a great idea to me.

Maybe LMP3 and GT3 could go together in a seperate race as a support series... Would provide a bit of an easier proving ground for alternative power too, being cheaper at first and a chance to get the basics of something correct before they try an LMP1/2 or GT1/2 entry. Races wouldn't need to be more than an hour or so in length if necessary.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

Yes let's go back to historic racing. Or better yet, wait for Porsche to do something! Sums up the current lack of a vision in prototype racing I think. In reality, neither the ACO, nor GrandAm, not FIA have a clue where this type of racing, and this kind of racecar, should be headed. Perhaps it is expendable these days.

Meanwhile at the club level, great fun is had by all.

Forward being what Cy?
The "nostalgic" cars, to use your favorite condemnatory term, would drive right by any of the current Lmpy cars, including some of the old GTS cars.

I understand what you are saying but , nostalgic rules were more advanced than current rules, so either you speed the cars up and deregulate, or you move, forward, and slow them down some more with more, equalizer, rules.

Unrestricted C sports racers, in the mode of racing for, MONEY, would probably quickly technologically embarass the Lmpy cars with their speed increases.

Bob

Bob

[JAG]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

There was no alternative power in sight at Daytona.

Last time I looked there were no prototypes at Daytona!

[thebear]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The last thing that the ALMS needs is another class.

What would be a great idea is an IMSA sanctioned support series, with cars at about the CSR level, that are designed to be relatively cheaply converted to LMP2 specs.

cue up Tim Northcutt here...

And from the Marshal's point of view, the last thing we need at any race right now is another `support race'! There are too many now. Look at the '05 Sebring schedule and tell me where/when you would squeeze in another race.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by thebear

And from the Marshal's point of view, the last thing we need at any race right now is another `support race'! There are too many now. Look at the '05 Sebring schedule and tell me where/when you would squeeze in another race.

Mr. bear. You make a salient point as it applies to 2005. Of course my suggestion is not for 2005, but is forward looking.

It is my expectation that SWC will be headed down a different path from the ALMS in the near future. They still could be at a number of ALMS events, but they have achieved enough growth that they could headline at a number of events, will join other series for City tracks.....

In order to be in charge of one's destiny, it is best to actually have some control over it.