da Matta hits out at Toyota F1

enemy-ace · 11 Mar 2005, 03:57 (Ref:1249133)

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/champcar/auto/15590/

Bit of sour grapes here or maybe a bit of a blame culture at Toyota?
IMO I don't think da Matta got a fair shake, but then the team probably does need more experienced wheelmen.
Can Gascoyne fix the mess that is Toyota, or does it go deeper than just the car?
Thoughts?

Boro · 11 Mar 2005, 04:41 (Ref:1249139)

I don't think it's sour grapes at all.

I doubt he gives a rat's ass if he never returns to F1. The 04 car was a huge letdown considering CDM had better results in 03 when it was his first year there.

As far as Gazza fixing the mess; I personally think he's overrated. I hope for Toyota's sake that I'll be proven wrong; I'll gladly eat my words

Kicking-back · 11 Mar 2005, 06:14 (Ref:1249153)

Generally those backing da Matta tend to be ChampCar fanatics wishing to "big-up" the standard of a once-great series.

da Matta got to F1, failed to perform and was dropped.

This sounds like sour grapes to me - he got an opportunity many drivers don't ever get.

Just my opinion, of course.

Wrex · 11 Mar 2005, 06:26 (Ref:1249157)

I was never supportive of the da Matta - Toyota combo to begin with. A rookie driver in a rookie team? If that combination expected results, it was insanity.

Toyota needed experience in that car, not a driver wanting it to handle more like a champ car. And lets face it, daMatta was no Montoya or Jacques either.

Boro · 11 Mar 2005, 07:08 (Ref:1249166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Generally those backing da Matta tend to be ChampCar fanatics wishing to "big-up" the standard of a once-great series.

da Matta got to F1, failed to perform and was dropped.

This sounds like sour grapes to me - he got an opportunity many drivers don't ever get.

Just my opinion, of course.

I've been supporting Toyota since WRC in the Group B era and thru their other tintop endeavours.

Even when they had McNish and Salo, I was hoping they'd give the 2 more time to get settled in.

How they treated AM and Salo showed me they don't have the right mentality in terms of going about F1. Instant results is not going to happen and constant personnel changes is no way to build a strong stable team.

Kicking-back · 11 Mar 2005, 07:14 (Ref:1249169)

McNish and Salo were not treated well, that's true - but da Matta failed to deliver.

Sodemo · 11 Mar 2005, 08:47 (Ref:1249217)

Did Panis do that much better than Da Matta?
My memory is fuzzy...

Testure · 11 Mar 2005, 10:28 (Ref:1249294)

He beat Panis in his first year. Some of that was reliability problems with Panis' car, but I do think that he was the better driver that year. The second year, he didn't do as well. I think he was pretty disappointed that their 2004 car was less competitive than their 2003 car. They went backwards and (I think) he deserved better.

N I Tram · 11 Mar 2005, 10:52 (Ref:1249319)

He was pretty even with Panis overall, and reliability wasn't the onyl issue - in Canada 2003 da Matta broke down while set to sore a point Panis inherited, whereas if Brazil had been restarted or continued a bit further he could've got big points there. He didn't seem to get a fair shot of things with the team, and by the middle of his second season they were keen to force him out. Her didn't seem to get much testing as time went on either.

Setantra · 11 Mar 2005, 11:46 (Ref:1249380)

Like Zanardi, Da Matta dominated American motorsport. Then he came to F1, expecting to dominate and be able to look down on all of the "Little" Europeans.

Kicking-back · 11 Mar 2005, 11:53 (Ref:1249390)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setantra

Like Zanardi, Da Matta dominated American motorsport. Then he came to F1, expecting to dominate and be able to look down on all of the "Little" Europeans.

Not sure if one season winning CART is "dominating American motorsport".

And the rest of your post is clearly nonsense.

Both came to F1 with a realistic head on - both disappointed.

But how you can claim to know what they think is beyond me!

Setantra · 11 Mar 2005, 12:04 (Ref:1249400)

Ok, so maybe not dominating. But his previous seasons weren't too shabby. And I was quoting an interview (near enough) when da Matta said:

"With the standard of F1 today, It shouldn't be difficult to be consistently in the points, or even win in my first season".

Realistic!? (Cough)

gttouring · 11 Mar 2005, 12:13 (Ref:1249410)

well daMatta is clearly bruised from his time at Toyota f1, i am sure he was expecting the treatment he recieved from TRD USA, but no go...i would rather at least try F1, and win all over in Champcar is hardly a consolation prize....well when it was one series it certainly was the one too show in. I am sure he will do fine but he is burning bridges.

Kicking-back · 11 Mar 2005, 13:18 (Ref:1249475)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setantra

And I was quoting an interview (near enough) when da Matta said:

"With the standard of F1 today, It shouldn't be difficult to be consistently in the points, or even win in my first season".

Realistic!? (Cough)

When did he say that?

I, frankly, don't believe he did.

dcp2685 · 11 Mar 2005, 13:21 (Ref:1249479)

I wouldn't necessarily say he's burning bridges. he's already said before he has no interest in getting involved in the politics of F1 again. He tried it out, given what he was given i though he did ok. He also mentions in the rant how he would make suggestions to the car, but the engineers wouldn't take it.

CDM is a very good driver and from what I've seen a class act too. I'm sure he'll have a fine career wherever he goes as long as it's not back to F1 which i doubt it would. It'd be great to see him rack up wins in other series. maybe after champ cars he'll hit up rally or touring cars.

Good luck CDM.

Setantra · 11 Mar 2005, 13:23 (Ref:1249482)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

When did he say that?

I, frankly, don't believe he did.

After the final CART race in 2003. I couldn't find the quote on Autosport. It was very like that. he must have been over confident in the car and the budget he was moving to. da Matta showed that he is a good driver, but he needed he equipment to show this. Da matta didn't have, didn't do, and didn't race in Melbourne as a result.

Setantra · 11 Mar 2005, 13:27 (Ref:1249489)

Having read the article, Da Matta is just plain bitter. Plain and simple. Bitterness does not impress employers

sonic · 11 Mar 2005, 13:30 (Ref:1249490)

even taking into account the medja angle and the fact he is dissapointed, I can imagine there is a kernel of truth in what CDM says.

Generalising massively, In both German and Japanese cultures theres a certain unwillingness to openly critcise and point the finger in a group dynamic. There is a tendancy to avoid rocking the boat and have anyone lose face.

Being an outspoken in that environment wouldn't go down to well.

N I Tram · 11 Mar 2005, 13:35 (Ref:1249494)

Once you compare Montoya to da Matta, it becomes clear that they were two very differnet drivers. JPM went to America having won the F3000 title, joined a top team with a former champion as team-mate, and utterly dominated him in his first season, before a second season full of mechanical problems thanks to Ganassi's switch to Lola and Toyota machinery.

da Matta was never a bright future star, but did well enough in the US to earn a drive with Newman-Haas, where he found an over-rated and fading team-mate in Christian Fitipaldi. Having done well in his first season with the team, the dominant Penske squad left, and he won the title by beating teams who were looking ahead to their switch to the IRL. With hindsight he may not have been the right man for F1, although he did well enough to deserve another chance - the thing is, Toyota are looking ahead with 2 big-name drivers, and CdM only wants a potentially competitive drive.

neil_davidson2 · 11 Mar 2005, 13:39 (Ref:1249501)

As with all these things there will have been far more going on between the driver and team than we will ever know.

CDM says in this article that people got upset if he said that the car understeered. I've never been part of an F1 team but I'd be somewhat surprised to find a team that didn't want this kind of input in setting the car up - as long as the input was valid of course. I would suspect that this snippet was only a part of an overall clash within the team.

Just second guessing of course...

enemy-ace · 11 Mar 2005, 14:45 (Ref:1249594)

When I read that remark from CDM it struck me that there might be a bit of a blame culture within the Toyota F1 team. With the amount of personnel changes Toyota seemed to employ you would almost get the impression that some team members were maybe trying to avoid scrutiny. Easier to deflect than to accept criticism. This type of culture within the organization may go some way towards explaining the teams rather slow development. They are hardly showing good results despite their budget and star members.

RaceFreak · 11 Mar 2005, 14:55 (Ref:1249606)

Toyota cycles thru it's drivers looking for pace. They've been in the game about the same number of seasons as Renault since it's re-emergence (from Bennetton). Renault has done more with less budget, and management at Toyota is constantly breathing down the teams neck for results. Consequently the "blame culture" (good analogy) arises. Cristiano's problem ? For sure ! It's no environment to be bringing up a new-guy.

Testure · 11 Mar 2005, 19:45 (Ref:1249835)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setantra

After the final CART race in 2003. I couldn't find the quote on Autosport. It was very like that. he must have been over confident in the car and the budget he was moving to. da Matta showed that he is a good driver, but he needed he equipment to show this. Da matta didn't have, didn't do, and didn't race in Melbourne as a result.

If you're going to talk about a driver's achievements, you should have the facts to hand. Cristiano raced in F1 in 2003 and 2004 - 2002 was his CART championship year. I find it very difficult to believe that he ever said something "very like" or "near enough" that he thought it possible to challenge for race wins in 2003. He's always seemed like a remarkably genial (and very un-F1) character.

Mosport67 · 11 Mar 2005, 20:58 (Ref:1249884)

I sure don't remember da Matta ever talking about winning in a Toyota after he left (or as he was leaving) CART.

Toyota's treatment of their drivers leaves a lot to be desired at this point. I accept what da Matta says as his view of what happened. The team didn't want to listen or hear his comments.

One could say the whole Toyota program has been a dismal failure so far. I don't think da Matta was any worse than the equipment he was given to drive.

Jordi · 11 Mar 2005, 23:12 (Ref:1249971)

I don't think Da Matta did badly... not with the equipment he was given.

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