Are the new tyre rules safe?

[JeremySmith]

What are you thoughts after two races? Are the new tyre rules SAFE. Should the drivers have to worry about tyres coming apart during a race or if there are visible grooves left by the end of the race.. I think the ruling does not work and needs to be changed now before someone get hurt.

[Knowlesy]

Everything seems alright so far.

No problems as of yet.........Kimis tyre problem was a valve fault.

My only concern is how the tyres will hold up at Hockenheim........that is the biggest test for tyres IMO.

[Pingguest]

I agree. Räikkönen was lucky not to had a puncture before the last corner.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Everything seems alright so far.

No problems as of yet.........Kimis tyre problem was a valve fault.

My only concern is how the tyres will hold up at Hockenheim........that is the biggest test for tyres IMO.

Why Hockenheim?

[Knowlesy]

Combination of the track characteristics and the high temperatures. It has been marginal on tyre wear over the past few years......

[Adam43]

We've seen tyre failures at Hockenhiem before. Off the top of my head there was Mika in 2001 and Damon in 1993.

Well in the same way that manufacturers should have built a tyre to last one stint before this year they have to do it again for this year. Except the stint is a little longer. Did you know that some races (for example Le Mans) require tyres to go much further - sometimes they run nearly three hours on one set (and Le Mans includes the Mulsanne).

[Adam43]

Here are some threads on this:
Tyre manufacturers speak about the rules
Tyre wear...
F1 Tyre rule is mad ...

amongst others...

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

We've seen tyre failures at Hockenhiem before. Off the top of my head there was Mika in 2001 and Damon in 1993.

Mika's was 1999 - but both that and Damon's were on the old layout.

I don't see tyres as being a problem to be honest.

From 1984-1993 many drivers did races non-stop.

This issue has proved to be largely a storm in a tea-cup.

[BootsOntheSide]

Michael had a tyre failure on the new Hockenheim layout in 2003.

We've seen an otherwise-healthy car retired because the tyres were making it too dangerous to be worth continuing for no points (paraphrasing what Ferrari said here). And we've seen an accident in which a car almost flipped over (partly) caused by a driver losing tyre grip as the race went on.

There is clearly a safety issue here, although it may be more related to either the fact that the tyres are grooved, makign their performance potentially less consistant, or the drivers needing to adjust towards more conservative styles (which wouldn't be a good thing in itself).

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Mika's was 1999 - but both that and Damon's were on the old layout.

1999, yes, sorry.
And double sorry for the second part - I momentarily forgot that there was a significant difference.

Boots has remembered a relevant situation though!

As for tyres causing accidents:

Originally Posted by Boots

And we've seen an accident in which a car almost flipped over (partly) caused by a driver losing tyre grip as the race went on.

However it has created an overtaking opportunity. There needs to be a speed differential between cars to achieve this (at least at different points in the race). It has increased the chance of this, perhaps increased the chance of cars overtaking each other - which will increase the chance of accidents. Ban overtaking for safety?

[Teretonga]

Go back to the early sixties and they would run on the same tyres for several races and on other occasions the tyres would be down to the canvas showing!

It's really a matter ofthe companies building a tyre that will last the distance-and they can do that, in spite of what they might say. Michelin has huge recent experience with long distance sports car racing/ALMS (and touring car racing)which may be why they seem to be more on top of the new regulations than Bridgestone.

In the end it comes down to the companies. Blaming the regulations for their failures is a nonsense. If that argument was you could argue that tyre failure under the old regs was because the FIA allowed tyre changes and that forced the tyre companies to produce tyres that were too soft and prone to delamination, punctures and cord disintergration, or that the grooves would be impossible to engineer a safe racing tyre for so we should all go back to slicks...

[Inigo Montoya]

I think the rules are safe. This was an extreme condition 50C+ track temperature! The tyres are safe, and we got some nice battles as a result. I am changing my mind about this rule.

[Adam43]

I must admit I am too Inigo Montoya. Although I wish having one tyre for the race occured naturally rather than through a specific rule. I do consider that maybe I am being picky here.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Michael had a tyre failure on the new Hockenheim layout in 2003.

A puncture, caused by him running off track over the end of a kerb.

Could have happened anywhere and not wear related.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

As for tyres causing accidents:

However it has created an overtaking opportunity. There needs to be a speed differential between cars to achieve this (at least at different points in the race). It has increased the chance of this, perhaps increased the chance of cars overtaking each other - which will increase the chance of accidents. Ban overtaking for safety?

Fair point, and we did see quite a lot of overtaking during the race, most of it successful and quite well-judged. Then again, as the season goes on the effect will probably get smaller, as teams adjust and we get some of the less hot races (we've still got to see how a set of rain tyres would hold up for the whole race - the last time that was done was at Monaco in 1996, and that was a few laps short of a full 78 laps anyway).

[racer69]

If the drivers drive properly there shouldn't be a problem with the tyres. The drivers know they have one set for the race, if they drive inaccordance to this they should be fine, if they push them too hard and it leads to problems for them, it's their fault, they didn't drive a good enough race......

All we need know is for the FIA to ban refuelling again, and these silly pitstops can be cast away with

[Gt_R]

If a driver tried taking a 3rd gear corner in 7th gear flat out and he crashed, it is not because the corner is dangerous.

Similarly, if a driver disregard the limits of the tyres and cause it to fail due to wear, we can't say it's the tyres that are at fault. There is a limit to which the tyres are designed to, according to a lisit of criteria and performance standards. A team/driver who choose to overstep the mark is asking for trouble.

On the otherhand, RB's case in Sepang is not caused by tyres nor drivers, but rather lodged rubber in the rear wing which cause excess wearing due to poor balance. Ferrari took the sensible decision to retire him on safety grounds and since it's pointless to continue further.

[Hungary 89]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Mika's was 1999 - but both that and Damon's were on the old layout.

I don't see tyres as being a problem to be honest.

From 1984-1993 many drivers did races non-stop.

.

This is a good point

However I would prefer to see a return to the full slick tyre which
I think would give a bit more durability over the longer runs

[sonic]

I LOVE this tyre rule.

That 3-way Ralf, Webber, Nick battle is precisely the sort of thing I love about motorsport. Brilliant stuff!

In terms of the failed attempts - fisi and webber, Nick and TGF - Great as well! The rules mean you actually have got to find a way to get past, and yeah - sometimes it ends in tears.

IMHO these guys are actually just a bit rusty on their wheel-to-wheel racing skills.

Fact is when someone puts a big move on you, sometimes you have to swallow - or you both go off.

[N I Tram]

Kimi's failed tyre hadn't done any more laps than a typical set did at the race last year, so that's not caused by the one-tyre rule. To be honest, the more exciting a race is, the more dangerous it will be (all other things being equal) but I don't see a small increase in danger as a bad thing, especially as the sport is so safe at the moment. No failure has been caused by the new rules, and Malaysia is one of the biggest tyre tests going, so I don't see it as a danger, especially as injuries have resulted from tyre changes in the past.

[chillibowl]

[QUOTE=knowlesy] No problems as of yet.........Kimis tyre problem was a valve fault.


does this valve failure have anything to do with the adjustments the michelin teams have done to make it easier to change tire pressure?

[Adam43]

It isn't just the Michelin teams that have systems for changing the pressure.

Each team has developed different systems. As far as I am aware no-one has said whether it is the normal valve that failed or the additional valves they added to change the pressure quickly.

[BootsOntheSide]

Interesting question there, and I don't know, especially as it was immediately after a pitstop at which they may well have altered the tyre pressure. Tyre pressure alterations are much more common in Indy style racing, and Bridgestone supply every ChampCar entry these days, so Michelin could ahve a disadvantage there, although I doubt it because they had so many pucntures and assorted tyre failures last year.