Conspiracy theories are not just coming from us.....(merged)

mp356a · 9 May 2005, 15:45 (Ref:1296752)

I clipped this from http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.h...09160835.shtml

"I consider that some of the rules introduced this year are not appropriate for F1 and are mostly there to stop Ferrari's domination," concluded di Montezemolo.

Sounds like some of our posters!

Inigo Montoya · 9 May 2005, 15:56 (Ref:1296757)

Except that there is a ring of truth in what he says. By the FIA's own admission, many of these rules were brought in to improve the "spectacle." Which means, to stop the Ferrari domination. For example, the silly points system...

Mark Edwards · 9 May 2005, 16:02 (Ref:1296763)

Considering Bridgestone have had the best tyres for some time now, I would have thought that they would have adapted better to new regs.
Once again all this is, is the red team moaning because they're not winning all the time. Luca & Jean having been acting like spoilt children for years now so this doesn't really surprise me.

mp356a · 9 May 2005, 16:05 (Ref:1296766)

Is it not somewhat amusing though that the same tires that give Ferrari the unlimited test excuse "we're doing all the development" are also taking the blame?
Not like they need an excuse as it's only a gentlemen's agreement but it is a fact that they have been using the tires as the excuse in most of the interviews that I have read.
It's not like the only item that they are testing is the tires so I find it amusing that they tires are now serving as both the excuse for not winning and the excuse for unlimited testing.
I guess they are getting good "mileage" from the Bridgestones! LOL
Mike

PS. In case anyone cares, I do not like the new regs for tires. Of course I am also of the opinion that the two-race engine rule and subsequent penalties are quite stupid.

Inigo Montoya · 9 May 2005, 16:11 (Ref:1296776)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Edwards

Considering Bridgestone have had the best tyres for some time now, I would have thought that they would have adapted better to new regs.
Once again all this is, is the red team moaning because they're not winning all the time. Luca & Jean having been acting like spoilt children for years now so this doesn't really surprise me.

Best tyres for quite some time? I don't agree. The Ferrari/BS package has been dominant, but Michelin have been making very strong tyres for last two years.

As for your comment about Luca and Jean acting like spoiled children, that's unnecessary.

Kicking-back · 9 May 2005, 16:36 (Ref:1296795)

The current points system was not just introduced this year.

The comments seem like sour grapes.

**touringlegend** · 9 May 2005, 18:03 (Ref:1296897)

What a load of rubbish.

Every team has to compete to the same rules. Ferrari simply haven't made as good a job this year as they have in recent years.

Marbot · 9 May 2005, 18:19 (Ref:1296911)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

What a load of rubbish.

Every team has to compete to the same rules. Ferrari simply haven't made as good a job this year as they have in recent years.

Be carefull what you say,we don't want them taking their football home do we.

Frank Rizzo · 9 May 2005, 18:27 (Ref:1296918)

Anybody else found themselves laughing reading last week's Autosport headline given the weekend's events? :

"OUR RIVALS ARE JUST BAD LOSERS" - Jean Todt.

A little salt and pepper with those words, Jean?

Inigo Montoya · 9 May 2005, 18:31 (Ref:1296920)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

The current points system was not just introduced this year.

And what was its purpose?

Marbot · 9 May 2005, 18:35 (Ref:1296922)

And now it has the purpose of allowing TGF to catch up,if he can.

mp356a · 9 May 2005, 18:40 (Ref:1296926)

So the true conspiracy is uncovered!
The FIA, knowing TGF would be running into a rough patch in a couple years, put this system in place to allow him to catch up!
Mystery solved!
Well done!

Inigo Montoya · 9 May 2005, 18:40 (Ref:1296927)

Yup, it might allow Michael to catch up. But, it was put in place because of the Ferrari domination.

You get two extra points for a race win. Silly silly silly...

Gt_R · 9 May 2005, 18:46 (Ref:1296934)

There really isnt much need to discuss this issue. Critics of Ferraris will remain that, denying that FIA could ever do anything which hurt the interest of Ferrari.

I find it interesting that when Ferrari put some statements up, it is "spoilt brat moaning". Interesting...because ask anybody along the pitlane and i doubt people would suggest that tyres are not Ferraris main problems. Even Bridgestone issues a statement in Sepang admitting to it... so who's telling the truth? AH...i guess the critics who sit at home staring at the tv and internet knows better by mere "i think so it must be"..

Regarding the rules... well, i agree everyone fight with the same set of rules/regulations. However, it doesn't take a genius to figure a simple logic : A team that is dominant with the current rule is likely to keep up the advantage, and changing regulations is a handy way of shuffling the cards.

Look back to the points system. For people who remember (or bother to), it is introduced after Michael trashed the field and win the championship somewhere just past mid-seasons, to stop him from winning the championship early... well, it almost did just that in 2003. There's just no denying that it is a knee-jerk reaction to Ferrari's success.

Even the qualifying arrangement is partly designed to compromise the winning team/driver *another factor being air time on TV for smaller teams*. By forcing the winning driver/team to go out first, effectively giving them a poorer track surface to play with, hoping that it'd give others a chance to outqualify them.

Luca didn't say ALL the rules are wrong. Some, and that i think can hardly be denied that some rules are made to affect Ferrari the most.

Maybe a quick look in the mirrors in the morning would give critics a better idea of who's moaning more, aye?

Kicking-back · 9 May 2005, 18:47 (Ref:1296935)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

And now it has the purpose of allowing TGF to catch up,if he can.

It will make it more difficult to catch up.

ralf fan · 9 May 2005, 18:58 (Ref:1296941)

To be fair... i think some of the rules were introduced to stop the Ferrari domination.

Lets not be naive The team bosses know that Ferrari's weak link have been the BS tyres and what better way to stop them than to make them to use the tyres over a whole race. however knowing their vulnerability on the BS tyres i am surprised that Ferrari actually agreed to this rule.

The points system is another example as well is the one lap qually. Ferrari were really so utterly dominant in 02 that the FIA really tried to introduce a way where there could be some un-predictability (one lap qually)...and give the others a chance to catch up in the championship if they had a bad start (points system)

Kicking-back · 9 May 2005, 19:05 (Ref:1296946)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Lets not be naive The team bosses know that Ferrari's weak link have been the BS tyres and what better way to stop them than to make them to use the tyres over a whole race. however knowing their vulnerability on the BS tyres i am surprised that Ferrari actually agreed to this rule.

But in 2002 and 2004 Ferrari had an advantage from very consistent Bridgestone tyres - and many people thought it may be Bridgestone who would come up with better "single tyre" specs.

Gt_R · 9 May 2005, 19:14 (Ref:1296955)

KB, when the new tyre rules were introduced, many engineers and F1 people recognise that it is quite a drastic change and challenge to both the F1 tyre manufacturers. To overcome such a challenge, testing is absolutely vital to gain the data needed and to experiment different compound/structures.

And that the rule is changed in short notice, agreed to by the FIA, knowing that Michelin has a testing-mileage advantage (quite a huge margin), shows that FIA is not helping Ferrari at all, if not hindering them. And as a matter of fact, surprise surprise, one of the interviews in F1racing (iirc), revealed that Michelin were the ones who suggested the new "tyre regulations".

I din't have a doubt that the mileage difference would kill Bridgestone's challenge in a big way.

Kicking-back · 9 May 2005, 19:16 (Ref:1296957)

The mileage difference between the manufacturers is no-ones fault - for whatever reason, other teams don't want to be on Bridgestone tyres.

ralf fan · 9 May 2005, 19:29 (Ref:1296966)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

The mileage difference between the manufacturers is no-ones fault - for whatever reason, other teams don't want to be on Bridgestone tyres.

Yes it isn't anybodies fault...... the Michelin teams IMO saw an oppurtunity to move ahead of Ferrari and stop their domination and took it...

Knowlesy · 9 May 2005, 19:33 (Ref:1296971)

Sour grapes! Rule changes tend to favour the best. Ferrari is supposedly the best. They are rubbish so far this season.

Case closed really. Although with comments like this, I wonder how long it will be until the Michelin tyres are outlawed.

Marbot · 10 May 2005, 00:56 (Ref:1297133)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gt_R

And as a matter of fact, surprise surprise, one of the interviews in F1racing (iirc), revealed that Michelin were the ones who suggested the new "tyre regulations".

IIRC,Michelin suggested the new regs so as to avoid the possibility of a control tyre.The two companies were asked for suggestions to limit lap times,this was Michelins suggestion,to which BS obviously agreed.

avsfan733 · 10 May 2005, 02:56 (Ref:1297172)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Sour grapes! Rule changes tend to favour the best. Ferrari is supposedly the best. They are rubbish so far this season.

seems that forcing rule changes because your losing is much more sour grapes

lets go through the list
1) changed the points system to make winning less of an advantage
2) force a tire rule change knowing it will give the advantage to the michelin teams allowing them to catch up to the ferrari which is already pretty much tire limited
3)try and force that team to then further limit testing knowing they are the only team developing there tires. aka put them at a disadvantage by a factor of at least 5

ya no conspiracy there i guess its ok for anyone else to complain just not the team getting ruled off the winners spot

JohnSSC · 10 May 2005, 03:54 (Ref:1297187)

All moaning aside, I think the new points system (iirc I noted this when it was rolled out) will simply make Mediocrity the goal.

NASCAR has a similar points distribution in that there is not a large gap between frist and second, et al. A few years ago, Terry Labonte won the Championship while only winning something like 2 or 3 races in a 40 race schedule.

Look at the number of wins that Kimi and JPM had together in '03 and they still were in it at the end even though Michael was way ahead in the win column. In teory, one could win the WDC while never placing higher than a podium finish. One would just need to do so in a majority of the races. A multi race winner with inconsistent reliability could lose it. Who is the true champion then, the guy who wins or the guy who drives just fast enough to finish in the top three?

I know who my WDC is in that scenario - bring back the "old" system I say!

im8457 · 10 May 2005, 05:00 (Ref:1297215)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp356a

I clipped this from http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.h...09160835.shtml

"I consider that some of the rules introduced this year are not appropriate for F1 and are mostly there to stop Ferrari's domination," concluded di Montezemolo.

Sounds like some of our posters!

I think the FIA did want to stop the Ferrari domination and I think they have done a good job of achieving that goal BUT Renault, Toyota and Mclaren have stepped up their efforts and deserve some credit for helping stop Ferrari's amazing but boring pole to chequered parades.

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