Montoya DQ - again!

bigjon · 14 Jun 2005, 10:27 (Ref:1328136)

Little bit of trivia...

Having thought about it I'm fairly sure the last time a driver was black flagged before sunday was Montoya (again) at Indy last year. Remember he had the problem on the grid etc.

So, when else in recent times have drivers been black flagged?

Hazard · 14 Jun 2005, 11:05 (Ref:1328165)

Schumacher, Silversone '94 I think was the last time before that.

Kicking-back · 14 Jun 2005, 11:13 (Ref:1328171)

Yes - and he ignored it and rejoined the race!

Bleu · 14 Jun 2005, 12:09 (Ref:1328217)

Some others:

Frentzen, Oz 02, exiting pit lane under red light
Bernoldi, Oz 02, using spare car
Trulli, Aut 01, exiting pit lane under red light
Salo, Esp 96, using spare car
Montermini, Mon 95, late for stop/go

richard_sykes · 14 Jun 2005, 12:17 (Ref:1328227)

Mansell did?

Didnt he ignore it and carry on, think he got fined big time and a suspension.
And I think he knocked somebody off the track too.

**Peter Mallett** · 14 Jun 2005, 12:22 (Ref:1328235)

He knocked Senna off IIRC

maximus · 14 Jun 2005, 16:26 (Ref:1328444)

Yeah I remember that. Senna kind of knocked himself out with that one though. He should have just let Mansell go.

Mr V · 14 Jun 2005, 16:53 (Ref:1328470)

Both Mansell and Senna said after the race that neither saw the black flag, something to do with the sun laying behind the pit gantry.

Estoril 1989 iirc. Wasn't he balck flagged for a pit lane infringement?

**John Turner** · 14 Jun 2005, 17:03 (Ref:1328484)

Yes, Nige, overshot his pit, and when his mechanics did not immediately run to push him back, he engaged reverse and backed it up himself, in breach of regs.

Bleu · 14 Jun 2005, 17:25 (Ref:1328508)

Interesting note is that Montoya is now joint leader in all-time disqualifications, if Tyrrell drivers' disqualifications in 1984 are not counted. Brundle and Johansson were disqualified once after that year, Brundle in 1987 and Johansson in 1989.

Other drivers with 3 disqualifications are Niki Lauda, Nigel Mansell, Stirling Moss, Mika Salo, Ayrton Senna and John Watson

Menelaos · 14 Jun 2005, 17:36 (Ref:1328520)

Yeah, that's cause JPM is totally crazy

BootsOntheSide · 14 Jun 2005, 18:09 (Ref:1328562)

Mika Salo's in pretty illustrious company there.

The three JPM disqualificatiosna re all competely unrelated - one's for a techncial infringement, one for a starting procedure error, and one for a safety car procedure error.

**John Turner** · 14 Jun 2005, 18:32 (Ref:1328591)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Mika Salo's in pretty illustrious company there.

Hey, I wanted to say that!

As for Tyrrell, that was all a bit contentious anyway, and certainly nothing much to do directly with the drivers.

Mr V · 14 Jun 2005, 19:13 (Ref:1328637)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menelaos

Yeah, that's cause JPM is totally crazy

Must make the rest on Bleu's list totally crazy too.

beau1 · 14 Jun 2005, 19:45 (Ref:1328673)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

Schumacher, Silversone '94 I think was the last time before that.

was that the time he over took Damon Hill on the formation lap.

Mr V · 14 Jun 2005, 19:48 (Ref:1328676)

It was, but he was actually dis-qualified for failing to come in and take his penalty.

The penalty was for the overtake on the formation lap.

Hazard · 14 Jun 2005, 19:49 (Ref:1328679)

Twas that one...though I was obviously wrong about it being the last time, guess I forgot the midfield!

Don K · 14 Jun 2005, 20:17 (Ref:1328697)

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau1

was that the time he over took Damon Hill on the formation lap.

Later that season, he also was disqualified at Spa (when the board under his car had lost too much material after going through a gravel trap).

beau1 · 14 Jun 2005, 20:35 (Ref:1328719)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don K

Later that season, he also was disqualified at Spa (when the board under his car had lost too much material after going through a gravel trap).

oh yes i remember being really annoyed with that. I was only only young but i understood. His racing has improved a lot mind since his punishments in 1997 also i think he has got a lot faster since he broke his legs. I remember thinking around the 94/95 period that he was going to be a real bad boy

Hazard · 14 Jun 2005, 22:51 (Ref:1328825)

We talking about disqualifications or black flaggings now?

Quite different...black flags are used when drivers break the rules...whether they're obvious ones or not (in the case of Montoya and those other guys and their spare cars). Disqualifications due to bent bargeboards or thin planks aren't exactly the same.

Kicking-back · 15 Jun 2005, 08:37 (Ref:1329043)

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau1

oh yes i remember being really annoyed with that. I was only only young but i understood.

You remember a race and controversy from when you were 4?

Amazing!

Don K · 15 Jun 2005, 10:01 (Ref:1329110)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

We talking about disqualifications or black flaggings now?

Quite different...black flags are used when drivers break the rules...whether they're obvious ones or not (in the case of Montoya and those other guys and their spare cars). Disqualifications due to bent bargeboards or thin planks aren't exactly the same.

The thread title (and the title of the starting post) talks about disqualifications.
The text of the starting post talks about black flags.
So I guess the thread is about both disqualifications and about black flags.

Montoya got his black flag because he broke a rule (149-i).
The rule clearly explains that in this situation you will have to wait until the entire queue has passed the pit exit, after which the red light will turn green.

At Silverstone, Michael got his black flag (stop-and-go) because he broke a rule (probably a rule very similar to rule 149-f in the current rules -- Hill was slowing, but apparently not with an obvious problem, so it was illegal to pass him).
And he got his disqualification (black flag) because he broke another rule (Similar to rule 55-b and 55-d in the current rules -- the penalty has to be taken within three laps). Benneton tried to protest during the race iirc, but that cannot be done in a black-flag-situation -- which caused the breaking of rule 55-b).

beau1 · 15 Jun 2005, 16:06 (Ref:1329380)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

You remember a race and controversy from when you were 4?

Amazing!

yeah. 94 was really the year i started to get into F1. i used to watch it before then but could'nt understand it. i also remember the day Senna died mainly because it was my birthday and i was watching the race at the time.

.

thejester · 16 Jun 2005, 21:12 (Ref:1331019)

I think JPM is in danger now of developing a negative reputation with the stweards etc. Just as some drivers seem to get away with borderline incidents through reputation, clout, whatever, the reverse may also be true. Montoya risks being seen as the dirty player on the team, and copping penalties more easily.For example, a passing block (such as Webber onFisi a couple of races ago) may well be treated more harshly if performed by Montoya.

He needs to be racing better and cleaner than everyone else.

Don K · 16 Jun 2005, 21:41 (Ref:1331067)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejester

I think JPM is in danger now of developing a negative reputation with the stweards etc. Just as some drivers seem to get away with borderline incidents through reputation, clout, whatever, the reverse may also be true. Montoya risks being seen as the dirty player on the team, and copping penalties more easily.For example, a passing block (such as Webber onFisi a couple of races ago) may well be treated more harshly if performed by Montoya.

He needs to be racing better and cleaner than everyone else.

No.
Driving just as clean as anybody else would be enough.

But he should not try to do that at this moment.

His agressive style is part of his strength.
As he is getting older and wiser, he is bound to start driving more safe. He might try to do this *slightly* faster, but if he changes too quickly he might lose (part of) his strength.

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