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24 Aug 2005, 01:24 (Ref:1389809) | #1 | ||
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Drivers are commodities to any team
I was going to post this in the Ant thread, but I would have to go Off Topic because the discussion involved Bunsen. Then there is SchM and so on.
The reason why Frank wants Bunsen is because he is a commodity - something that Frank can sell to a high paying sponsor. Could be well over 10 million dollars which means it will pay for his engines next year. So what is Ant worth in sponsorship? Not much YET!! because the Birtish media hasn't built him up to be a super hero. So even if Ant could get into the same race car and beat Bunsen after three races say, he hasn't, and he won't get that chance at BAR unfortunately. Look at SchM: a lot of people complain that he is being paid too much by Ferrari. Well the reality is that Ferrari makes more out of having him in the team than they pay him. First of all, the team's sponsors have to pay Ferrari megabucks simply because SchM drives for Ferrari and has won championships at Ferrari. Then there are the team flags, caps, shirts, jackets and whatever else Ferrari sell that brings in oodles of cash. Then of course there are the cars which they sell, and any rich guy in Dubai, Hong Kong and anywhere else where millionaires wants a status symbol drives the most expensive and fastest Ferrari because they will then have something in common with SchM. And that brings me back to Bunsen - he would command high sponsorship fees next year because he is going to be the next World Champion according to the British Media. Then of course there is Ralfie who is paid a very high salary because he is SchM's brother and Frank hired him to win the championship for Williams. There have been rumours that BMW footed a large portion of Ralfie's salary, and I don't doubt that. He was the poster biy for BMW in many ads. So I hope this, in part, answers the question why BAR wants to retain Bunsen and Frank wants Bunsen rather than the Ant. |
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24 Aug 2005, 08:08 (Ref:1389917) | #2 | ||
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Check out some of the recent BAR/Williams/Button threads to see these ideas discussed!
It is assumed by most that a lot of Williams sponosrship was sold on the back of Button. Although no one has signed Cadburys yet. And on that: Isn't "Button" far more amusing than "Bunsen" anyway? |
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24 Aug 2005, 09:40 (Ref:1389975) | #3 | |||
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V-B's main point is sound, of course. But I'd add a rider: I think that Williams's approach to driver management - "They're just employees, we hire them to win the constructors' championship" - has been raised to a fetish by Sir Frank and Patrick, and has done the team serious harm. They lost Damon Hill when he probably had another title, maybe two, in him, they saw Villeneuve walk away probably at the peak of his ability for a more conducive working atmosphere, they failed to get the best out of Frentzen before his move to Jordan showed what he was capable of, and they failed to keep Ralf and JPM in the same team when they could have achieved great things. I'm not suggesting that the drivers were blameless in these incidents, but I would accuse Williams of plain bad man-management. And for what? To prove how tough they are? |
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Interviewer: "Will the McLaren F1 be your answer to the Ferrari F40?" Gordon Murray: "Hmm... I don't think we have anyone at McLaren who can weld that badly..." |
24 Aug 2005, 10:50 (Ref:1390028) | #4 | |||
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Taking your points in reverse order, Ralf is probably safe at Toyota as long as the team is German-based and needs a German driver to boosdt its appeal, and as long as his ast name is Schumacher. Any improvement they could get with a moere capable driver (assuming that guys like Davidson and Zonta are mroe capable, whcih is unclear), they would lose out in terms of publicity and sponsorship, and the whole effort would have less percieved value without a sueprstar driver. It's a sad state of affairs really. |
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24 Aug 2005, 11:38 (Ref:1390084) | #5 | |||
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In the same vein, would you say that SchM is more amusing than TGF? |
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24 Aug 2005, 11:48 (Ref:1390094) | #6 | |||
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24 Aug 2005, 12:21 (Ref:1390125) | #7 | ||||
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Last edited by Adam43; 24 Aug 2005 at 14:22. |
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24 Aug 2005, 12:22 (Ref:1390130) | #8 | |||
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Interviewer: "Will the McLaren F1 be your answer to the Ferrari F40?" Gordon Murray: "Hmm... I don't think we have anyone at McLaren who can weld that badly..." |
24 Aug 2005, 12:41 (Ref:1390153) | #9 | |||
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24 Aug 2005, 12:54 (Ref:1390167) | #10 | |
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why was frentzen so crap at williams? that has always puzzled me
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24 Aug 2005, 13:20 (Ref:1390182) | #11 | ||
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Murray made a slip of the tongue and called him that once. It doesn't really explain why you have to call him it every single time rather than ever use his name. And the TGF thing has (thankfully, IMO) almost died out. |
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24 Aug 2005, 14:14 (Ref:1390234) | #12 | |||
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Interviewer: "Will the McLaren F1 be your answer to the Ferrari F40?" Gordon Murray: "Hmm... I don't think we have anyone at McLaren who can weld that badly..." |
24 Aug 2005, 14:21 (Ref:1390241) | #13 | ||||
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Sorry, back to topic. |
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24 Aug 2005, 15:24 (Ref:1390272) | #14 | ||
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if i was running williams i'd have given him a bit more love...but it's possible his personality wasn't one to warm to... |
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24 Aug 2005, 15:36 (Ref:1390281) | #15 | ||
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That Peter Sauber, Eddie Jordan and, briefly, Alain Prost were all able to coax good results out of HHF but Frank Williams and Patrick Head were not rather suggests that the problem lay at Grove.
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Interviewer: "Will the McLaren F1 be your answer to the Ferrari F40?" Gordon Murray: "Hmm... I don't think we have anyone at McLaren who can weld that badly..." |
24 Aug 2005, 15:45 (Ref:1390286) | #16 | ||
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Off Topic, but I find the use of Bunsen rather condescending - you can't even class it as an abbreviation. Likewise TGF is dubious; I suspect the user who originated it would hate to be identified as TJL or similar.
On topic, yes I did get those names the wrong way round. The point is that Williams would have had a 1-2 in the drivers championship, adn thus the constructor's championship - it doesn't really matter from a team owner's perspective how dominant you are. The problem for Frentzen may have been that he was comfortbaly oupaced by JV in the early part of 1997, by which time the team naturally focused on fending off Ferrari's unexpectedly strong challenge, so perhaps HHF felt unlvoed for that reason. In the other teams you mention he was very much the lead driver and 'point man', once it became clear that Damon was off-form in 1999. |
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24 Aug 2005, 15:47 (Ref:1390287) | #17 | ||
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HHF was perhaps the most praised and "loved" driver by Williams (to the extent Williams can feel anything remotely comparable to "love" toward this component of the package that a driver is). He was still at Sauber that Williams / Head were openly considering him as the best driver of the grid. It is only after JV had the edge over him that both Head and Williams started to show some respect toward JV (at the time).
To answer the question as put in the title of this thread: Drivers have, unfortunately, become a mere commodity to the teams. IMO, attitude, personnality and marketability have become even more important than talent (BTW, have you noted that none of the active ones can be considered below the average of mankind in terms of physical appearance except for their size?). The only way to "fix" this (as I think this is a problem) would be to give back a greater role/responsability to the driver in the outcome of the races. Personnally, I wish I could one day see all of them racing in identical equipment. Unfortunately, it won't happen. |
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24 Aug 2005, 15:48 (Ref:1390288) | #18 | |
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The use of Bunsen isn't condescending, or disrespectful. It's just painfully unfunny, and rather tiresome when it's repeated again and again and again.......
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24 Aug 2005, 15:51 (Ref:1390292) | #19 | |||
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24 Aug 2005, 17:29 (Ref:1390347) | #20 | ||||
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Murray Walker: Ferrari won't be developing their car any more this season. Martin Brundle: How do you know that? Murray Walker: Because I was there when I said it. |
24 Aug 2005, 17:57 (Ref:1390369) | #21 | |
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Nascar does not have identical equipment.
Yes, there's a lot done to ensure manufacturer parity, but a good team is still better than a poor one. |
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24 Aug 2005, 18:03 (Ref:1390373) | #22 | ||
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easy there tex, whoa big fella, i was just kiddin'
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Murray Walker: Ferrari won't be developing their car any more this season. Martin Brundle: How do you know that? Murray Walker: Because I was there when I said it. |
24 Aug 2005, 18:55 (Ref:1390406) | #23 | |||
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24 Aug 2005, 19:15 (Ref:1390423) | #24 | |||
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and please don't call yourself bad looking Louis ... modern medical science can do wonders nowadays. |
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Murray Walker: Ferrari won't be developing their car any more this season. Martin Brundle: How do you know that? Murray Walker: Because I was there when I said it. |
24 Aug 2005, 19:23 (Ref:1390428) | #25 | ||
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That's a good one QuickSilver. We would need some women expertise on this point though.
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