Racers marshaling - licence signature

[JohnD]

All,
You probably know that racers who marshal at a race meeting may get a CoC signature on their licence and use it towards the total they need to upgrade. I hope you agree that this is an enlightened provision by the MSA to widen the experience of people who normally see life through the tunnel vision of their helmet slit.

Last weekend, I was asked to marshal at a hillclimb (again, it's local and I always enjoy it). This time, I wanted an extra signature as I'm planning a European trip later this year, so bonus! But the CoC wouldn't sign.

The provision is in para E.2.15.2 (I think - no Blue Book with me today, maybe E 15.2.15! Upgrading anyway) under "Racing" and the provision is not repeated in the section for "Speed events". I respect his decision, but what do you guys think? Should a racer be able to get a signature for marshaling in a different discipline?

John

[Woolley]

Hmm, interesting question. I guess it depends what the ruling is intended to do. If the intention is to increase marshalling numbers, then yes. If it is so that when you're racing you have a better appreciation of the flag signals, what it's like being out in the gravel trap as cars are flying by without lifting for yellows and learning what dangerous driving looks like from the outside, then no, as you're not going to get any of that from a hillclimb if you're a circuit racer.

[The Fat Clerk]

E.2.15.2 (page 55 of the Blue Book) is indeed the right place, what it says is: That it must be a Race Meeting,and you can only use it for going from Nat B to Nat A.
You can't enter a Race if you have a Speed Licence, so I suppose this thinkings the same. After all 39 Caterham entering Brooklands all at the same time (BARC meeting @ Silverstone, a couple of weeks ago) is slightly different to one car at a time.

[johngee]

The ruling is quite specific in that, as The Fat Clerk points out, it only applies to circuit racing and also, only to upgrade from Nat B to Nat A. I don't believe it was ever intended as a way of boosting marshalling numbers but was to encourage drivers to spend a day on a marshals post in order to understand and appreciate both what the marshals actually do and also the need to take additional factors (obeying flag signals, pulling off in a safe position, the 'avoidablity' of contact etc.) into account when racing.
We've had a number of HSCC and 750MC drivers who have done it and I can't remember a single one who didn't both thoroughly enjoy the experience and learn a great deal from their day but, with respect, I don't see that a driver learns nearly as much by marshalling in another discipline.
I'm sorry, JohnD, that you didn't get your signature but the C of C was quite right to decline and I'm sure it was no reflection on your efforts. Come to one of our meetings and The Fat Clerk or myself will be happy to oblige.

[archaic gold]

How can I comment on the statements on two very learned Clerks of the Course? They are both absolutely correct in their interpretation of the "Blue Book", and the Speed Clerk was absolutely correct in his decision not to give a signature. A maximum of one signature for Marshalling on a Nat B Racing licence is all that is permitted.

[PVDA]

Down here in the colonies CAMS has had a requirement for ALL new licence applicants to serve a day on a marshal post for several years now as a part of their signature requirements to get off their probabtionary licence.

It's something I talked about should be done for several years before it was implimented and although some marshals couldn't see the use most down here agree it's a good idea.

As mentioned it gives the drivers a better idea of what we are about and the sort of things we can see from our vantage point and teach them a few things from our point of veiw which hopefully will mean they will behave better on the track knowing we are watching them.

I've baby sat quite a few over the years and except for the really wet days (I usually have a spare pair of wet weather gear to loan them) 99% of them come away happy and usually wave as they drive past in their future races.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

How can I comment on the statements on two very learned Clerks of the Course? They are both absolutely correct in their interpretation of the "Blue Book", and the Speed Clerk was absolutely correct in his decision not to give a signature. A maximum of one signature for Marshalling on a Nat B Racing licence is all that is permitted.

I never knew I was 'learned'.

[PipSqueak111]

On a similar note, am I right in my belief that race marshals cannot get upgrade signatures from Speed events. I'm upgrading to Flag from Course at the moment - am I right in thinking I wouldn't qualify for an upgrade signature if I flagged at a hillclimb?

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by PipSqueak111

On a similar note, am I right in my belief that race marshals cannot get upgrade signatures from Speed events. I'm upgrading to Flag from Course at the moment - am I right in thinking I wouldn't qualify for an upgrade signature if I flagged at a hillclimb?

I am going to stick my neck out here and say "No".
Flagging on a Speed event is basically only Yellow and Red; mostly Red. Circuit Marshalling requires a knowledge of operating 6 Flags, and especially with the blue, a great degree of concentration and aptitude. Therfore, it would be unfair to gain signatures on such a limited deployment of Flags.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

Circuit Marshalling requires a knowledge of operating 6 Flags

At the same time?

[JohnD]

Thanks to all!

I've not only been learned, I've been teached and eddicated.

I still need one more siggy though!

John

[archaic gold]

Regrettably, with the low numbers of Marshals: "At the same time is very relevant!!" However, those that stand the pace do a great service and to be commended!.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

I am going to stick my neck out here and say "No".
Flagging on a Speed event is basically only Yellow and Red; mostly Red. Circuit Marshalling requires a knowledge of operating 6 Flags, and especially with the blue, a great degree of concentration and aptitude. Therfore, it would be unfair to gain signatures on such a limited deployment of Flags.

Quite correct. You can get signatures (up to four, I think) for incident and course, but flagging at a hillclimb gives you no relevant experience to carry over to circuit.

I'm not aware of yellows being used on any hillclimb in Britain, some of the longer European ones do it.

[PipSqueak111]

Cheers chaps, just confirmed what I thought. Bit of a b*gger really as I'm moving to Devon where all my local events will be hillclimbs and sprints. Shall have to continue my upgrades at Castle Combe.

Frustrating how many times I've flagged at Brands, but haven't had an examining IO or anyone else able to sign my upgrade card
Happened again at the AMOC meeting the other week. Kevin worked me really hard on my flagging on post 1 all day, but there was nobody to sign it off.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by PipSqueak111

Frustrating how many times I've flagged at Brands, but haven't had an examining IO or anyone else able to sign my upgrade card
Happened again at the AMOC meeting the other week. Kevin worked me really hard on my flagging on post 1 all day, but there was nobody to sign it off.

Always worth asking one of the Clerks in those circumstances. I've certainly signed off one or two upgrade cards for flagging at Posts 1 & 2 at Brands, as they're very visible from race control.