Karting Safety

[Chatters]

Interesting to read these superkarts have no belts- Is there a reason for this? That seems plain idiotic to me.

[EvilPumpkin]

I think a separate thread for discussion of karting safety would be more appropriate.

[Chatters]

That's perfectly fine- So can anyone help me out? As I mentioned unless there is a logical reason it seems plain stupid.

[ghinzani]

They havent got any crash protection to speak of either. I think like the old 50s F1 cars theyd prefer to be thrown clear?

[Chatters]

But that sounds obscene! In this day and age of high tech safety equipment, they don't even have belts! That's ludicrous.

[davyboy]

There's not a whole lot of difference in being attached to a kart or being thrown clear. They are small fragile vehicles with very little protection and are very much like a motorcycle when involved in an accident. The driver's not cocooned in a safety cell like a single seater, sports or saloon car.

[Chatters]

So these karts designed to throw you out if you have a head on impact? OK... That would mean that all the kart circuits would need adequate barrier protection to stoop the driver getting injured from impact. Needless to say however, I don't think I'll be trying my hand at one of those, they sound way to dangerous.

[wi11iamm]

Chatters yes they are very dangerous...they have lots of power and protection is minimal.

As davyboy points out the use of seatbelts wouldnt really improve safety. Its similar to suggesting putting seatbelts on a motorbike. Is there any difference in flying through the air on your own or attached to some heavy mass thats going to provide you with no protection at all.

[Doc Hollywood]

I dont think that Karts are designed to either keep you in or throw you clear. Unfortunatley in my experience the last two times I've seen/heard of someone having a big off and staying in the kart they havn't made it.

[EvilPumpkin]

Well I've been marshalling karts for a few years now and I've seen quite a few drivers thrown clear - I've seen karts with wheels coming off, I've seen karts thrown over banks, I've even seen them flip.

Mercifully the drivers have always emerged semi-ok - give or take a few broken bones.

Are karts dangerous? Yes. Are motorbikes dangerous? Yes. Are racing cars dangerous? Yes. Is motorsport dangerous? Well so they tell me - it's usually written on the ticket. And in the programme. And on the sign on sheet.

Every racer makes a choice to do what they do - knowing the risks. The risks in karts are lack of protection and sometimes racing at circuits that may not have as many safety features as others - such as erectecell etc. That is a choice that the racer makes.

[superbird]

Yes, I can't see how seatbelts would make superkarts any safer. Unfortunately racing a vehicle without a tub is inherently more dangerous than racing one with, whether it's a kart or a motorcycle. Those that drive them know the risks and in Superkarts tend not to be the teenagers that are usually associated with karting in the popular imagination.

[jimbomit]

What's dangerous and what isn't? I know guys who play football who have broken nearly every bone in their bodies, I've met rugby players who've broken their backs and caused permanent damage to themselves and we've all read the papers of many other serious / fatal injuries caused while participating in one sport or another.

Motorsport is dangerous but we know the risks. No one goes into it thinking it's a walk in the park.

I only hope that after this terrible and tragic accident that there isn't a knee jerk reaction to legislate against free choice.

I was at the meeting on Sunday and from a personal view, feel lucky to have missed the accident having been sat in the stand for the previous race and got up to have a wander around the paddock. People who were there related some of the detail and circumstances of the accident and from that I can only describe it as tragic. Sometimes things happen that you would never be able to replicate, they are one offs. This sounds like one of those that sadly does not have a happy ending.

Let the dust settle before deciding what should and should not be allowed. We are all adults and perfectly capable of assessing risk for ourselves. Why else would people jump out of planes for fun when you are only one piece of equipment away from death? Danger is the price we pay for living.

[davyboy]

Agreed jimbomit. There's very little that can be done to improve long circuit kart racing short of imposing draconian speed/power limits or banning it completely. Motor sport is not a need. We make an informed choice to go motor racing and accept the risks involved.

[scott19]

In my opinion if you dont have a roll bar or a roll cage you dont have belts. So if you are belted into a super kart, what happens if you flip? You have the full weight of the kart on your head and your back! At least if you dont have belts you get thrown clear of the heavy machinary.

[Gilles lives!]

I felt the need to reply even though I can't say anything that will help with what has happened. My family and I were involved with long circuit gearbox karting from the late '70's through to the mid '90's. We raced at Silverstone for the early GP's on the full GP circuit complete with catch fencing and no Woodcote chicane. 60 karts in each race was a common occurrence, we even managed 19 off at Copse at the start of one particular heat, without a single injury to all involved. A superkart is easily the single most exciting vehicle that I have ever driven, that is their appeal, they are so raw.

As has been mentioned above the drivers know the risks, they are racers, nothing will stop them from going out racing and then talking about it over a pint in the evening. As Jimbomit said this looks to be a one off as is often the case with this type of incident. The two drivers that died in one afternoon at the Brands kart GP in '94, were involved in seperate incidents. Nobody had an answer then for those losses, as with the loss of life at Imola in F1 that year.

Motorsport is dangerous full stop and unfortunately with it comes the risk of injury.

[luke]

As mentioned before, seat belts would be pointless, as would still likely flip and if you are belted in your neck and head would be crushed and probably be left somewhere down the track, where as with out it when you are flipping atleast you fly or are flung out of the side and a good chance you'll be ok at times.
Even with a roll cage, seat belt etc, it wouldn't make much of a difference. Gearbox karts go the same speed and similar of F3 cars, and these are just karts with hardly any protection and basically have wings for downforce. I guess any crash in them is going to be bad at those speeds.
But then again, the same question is, should motorbike riders have a seatbelt etc? That's more dangerous yet I don't see anything being changed there...

[Kieran20]

i have been involved in a crash where my kart has flung me out and when i look at where it lands im wquite glad i wasnt in it. i have also witness some crashes for example at the 2004 tkm festival when a kart actually launched over the railings, then rammed into a van in the paddock. if the driver where to be fastened in the kart then he would have beenn seriously injured. however he landed on the tyre wall and walked away. safety belts in karting are most probably more dangerous.

[marcus]

yep the reason is because of the lack of roll over protection.

I wouldnt want to be stapped into anything without a roll over hoop.

I havent raced a superkart at all but I would imagine its no different from a sprint kart (albeit a million miles an hour faster)

I would rather be thrown clear everytime.

Thankfully I never ended up on my lid while I was racing so I guess I cant really say whats better , I guess you just gotta pray you never roll.

[Chatters]

I just had an idea, not sure if it's any good, but... If we put a roof over these superkarts, so you have one streamlined body going over the whole thing, which can be easily removed in the event of an accident or to get in and out of the kart. Any thoughts?

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Chatters

I just had an idea, not sure if it's any good, but... If we put a roof over these superkarts, so you have one streamlined body going over the whole thing, which can be easily removed in the event of an accident or to get in and out of the kart. Any thoughts?

Yes. We already have these. They're called "cars".

[Chatters]

...

[EvilPumpkin]

ooh we could make motorbikes safer too. If you gave them four wheels instead of two, they wouldn't fall over as much.

[Chatters]

Told you it wasn't any good- Thanks for making me look stupid EP!

[EvilPumpkin]

oh you didn't need me for that dear - you managed fine all by yourself

[EvilPumpkin]

Now, getting back to Kart safety, I think the issue is more to do with the set up of the tracks.

In Mondello, we've started using erectecell along the pit wall amongst other things. However, when you have a mixed car/kart meeting, I'm not sure how feasible this is. I don't think there's any issue with erectecell and cars?