Lydden News & Results

[Cryos]

Central topic for this

Only news i have is that Ian O'Connell and David Binks had an Altercation in the first heat on the 3rd turn, resulting in Ian gaining extensive suspension damage.

Pitty as Ian and Frank have prepaired the car nicely and ian certainly does know how to drive that little mini Not as much power as the rest of the lads but as seen in Pembrey he can keep the big boys entertained!!

[silver bullet]

Recent news,
Weather report
CoC touring the circuit seeing if it is suitable to run the Supermod 'A' final. Turpin on pole (I think)
Supercar 'A' final to be re-run.

[ebby]

Racing abandoned

[schanche]

Just back rain stops play today
No superfinal run! Only the supercar A final got run, but that got stopped due to Dermott going off in a big way at the top of the hairpin.
So I think the results for supercars will be determined by the postions the cars were running before the red flag.So Jordan wins sorry cant remeber much else was busy watching Dermott demolish the tyre wall and TV Film crew.The poor TV guy was walking around dazed and the marshalls only dealt with Dermott till the crowd pointed them in the right direction.

[ebby]

As a spectator I am very frustrated with the way the meeting was handled today... this was the first rallycross event I had taken a friend to, after the easter event was so good, but it made me realise how difficult the sport is to understand to a new comer.

I had said it was all about the supercars and super modifieds, but you actually spend all day watching old has-been modified cars, formula 205 and minis, and have to explain a lot about heats, and finals, for MSA, BRDA and then BTRDA...

Then with the modified A-final, supercar A-final re-run and superfinal to go, why rallycross (which was a winter sport and which used to be run in snow at Lydden) had to be cancelled due to two puddles on Chessons Drift, which in previous years had been cleared by the JCB digger.

The super modified drivers had a meeting on the grid in the pouring rain, and then they got back in their cars ready to race. With Turpin deciding not to race, it looked like they had been told the conditions and whether or not they wanted to race. Then the clerk decided to abandon the meeting.

Why couldn't they clear the puddles on Chessons? Why couldn't they race on a waved yellow in that area? Why couldn't they go on the tarmac around Chessons and only use the rough on Paddock Bend?

I probably speak on behalf of other spectators that we had spent good money today to stand in the pouring rain waiting for the Finals, which promised to be excellent races. With the deteriorating conditions they could have cut out the clubman third heats, in which no one would've set any faster times due to the wet track.

I bet Jordan (who drove magnificently) must be hacked off, they were points in the bag. And a let off for Doran. Will they be awarding points based on Heat times for the championships?

Liam's handling of his new Fiesta was shocking also!

[Cryos]

It is shocking sometimes how stuff is run, i for one am still shocked about pembrey and Derek Tohill getting no win for it even tho it was the last lap and derek had completed the run before the reds went out. There was no point in stopping it as there was nobody else behind godfrey as the cars would of been pitting anyway.

Anyone want to explain what happened with DC ?

[shhh]

DC fine, only superfical damage. Car was fixed and ready for restart but rain meant abandonment.

Result:

JORDAN
DORAN
DC
MUNDY
WATSON

[BertMk2]

The officials didn't have a lot of choice about abandoning the meeting - there was deep standing water at the entry to Chessons, there was a very large puddle at the entry to paddock and water streaming across the circuit in at least 3 places. There was no way they could let it run under those conditions - if the rain had stopped some of it could have been cleared but with the wet stuff still falling there was no chance of getting it shifted.

The junior minicrossers were first to fall foul of the weather with 1 car finishing the final heat - the others were victims of the usual mini wet weather problem of wet electrics. The supercars then proceeded to show how little grip there was with O'Donovan going off at the elbow and Carnegie removing the tyre wall at the top of the hill. Supermods didn't fair much better with everyone struggling for grip and throwing bow waves through Chessons.

Some good racing out there today, some new cars too with Liam Doran and Mike Howlin both out in rwd Fiestas - fair to say both need some more testing! Liams in particular looked horrible to drive, it was squirming all over the place (and that was before it rained!)

[Rod Birley]

For once the dear old BBC got their weather forecast spot on. That corner of Kent stayed dry until about 1 pm (unlike Brands Hatch where it rained all day). The predicted rain then arrived and steadily got worse.

[Stephen H]

What happens to the Superfinal/British Championship points when no "A" finals are completed?

[BertMk2]

Results declared as qualifying positions (assuming they don't declare the supercar A final from the lap before Dermot went in the tyres.). That would give Jordan the supercar win and superfinal.

[Mad Mark Watson]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Results declared as qualifying positions (assuming they don't declare the supercar A final from the lap before Dermot went in the tyres.). That would give Jordan the supercar win and superfinal.

As with Ebby bit ticked off with it all too Just back and feel robbed!

We having to run on tyres that were clearly not up for the conditions. With no choice or gravel or such tyres to sope.

If track conditions were better than water wouldnt stand like it did i have raced at lydden in weather just as bad.

We pay full entry fee and only do half races and yes people knew weather forecast in advance.

As with a lot of drivers the results should of be zero points for all and the round to count at the end of the year it made a lot of difference to standings
i was joint 4th in qualifying now classed 5th. And everyone knows the superfinal can be a whole lot different result when run. People gained points and lost points that could make a whole heap of difference at end of year.

I am sorry to say like a lot of drivers I am dissilusioned with the BRC at the moment. We will seriously consider if we carry on or not. But its possible that the other xsara will dissapear from Biritish Rallycross.

Final note any spectators thank you for coming to watch i hope you will not be put off.

[Roundy Mooney]

Originally Posted by shhh

DC fine, only superfical damage. Car was fixed and ready for restart but rain meant abandonment.

Result:

JORDAN
DORAN
DC
MUNDY
WATSON

Heres my problem with the BRC at present. NO CONSISTANCEY . How is what happened to DC any different to what happened to Julian in Pembery. Yet one rule for stock hatch and another for supercar as regards the results. Or Maybe "who" is more important than what catagorey.

Just to confuse the matter even more the msa championship points on the BRDA website have been awarded to the drivers of that stock hatch final in pembery on finishing results in the first run. But on the day the awards where handed out on qualifing postions. It just doesn't get any more complicated or confusing.

[StockHatch782]

As regards the cancellation of the finals:

We lowly stock hatch drivers were talking amongst ourselves as the rain continued, then saw the carnage in the first corner of the supermodified final where only three cars got cleanly around Chessons. The feeling was of great concern for

a) Our own safety - the wall of water thrown up was well over the height of the car and the brightest rain light couldn't prevent a potentially massive accident in that situation

b) The well-being of our cars - that amount of water not only increases the chances of spinnig into the tyres/another competitor (see O'Donovan and Carnegie for confirmation), but is also potentially lethal for an engine, since water could easily be sucked into the air intake

c) Competitor enjoyment and spectator spectacle - none of us particularly enjoy driving slowly on a rallycross track, but the conditions dictated that we must. To highlight this, in my third heat I drove like a granny around the whole track, hardly ever full throttle, several excursions onto the (very slippery) grass and even into the tyres, yet I set the third quickest time in the BTRDA stock hatches. This is not rallycross. Surely spectators would quickly become bored with a procession of slow-moving, underperforming cars being nursed to the finish?

Most drivers just wanted to go home and save their cars for another day, with a few even deciding not to race in the finals at all due to the above points. If it had stoped raining, it is likely that they could have cleared the track and run the finals, but the persistent downpour meant that every part of the track became more dangerous by the lap.

I appreciate the disappointment for the spectators who, as has been said, pay good money to see the racing, and it is frustrating for everyone when weather stops play. The drivers, however, pay rather more money and have their own safety and that of their cars to consider before they think of the enjoyment of the spectators.

We'd all love to put on a great show for you. Perhaps if you come to Pembrey, we will!

[Spectator]

AS a paying spectator there was IMHO no way that racing could continue with the conditions as they were.
The decision to call off the meeting was taken at about 16.50 and as Bert said there was standing water all over the place, the rain was still falling and with a curfew time of 18.00 there was no way that the track could have been cleared of water and the finals run even if the rain had stopped unlike August last year when the heavens opened but then cleared and the sun shone.
The weather spoilt what was a very good days racing. I expect there was frustration on all sides, drivers, organisers and spectators but no one can control the elements so there is really no one to blame.
I for one am grateful that despite all the offs there were no serious injuries to any of the drivers or their cars and they hopefully will all be back out at Pembrey.
If it was bad for the spectators spare a thought for the marshalls who were out in the rain without the luxury of an umbrella or any shelter.
Well done to all concerned.

[leonidas]

The decision to abandon is always going to be a difficult call in rallycross. Its supposed to be an off-road sport so there is an argument for saying people should just drive to the conditions. This isn't circuit racing where significant standing water is always going to cause an abandonment.

One option may be to reduce the number of cars on the finals grid in seriously adverse conditions - I'm sure organisers used to have this option? A 4-car final is going to be a lot safer than an 8-car one...

[Cryos]

The flip side of the argument is that licenced circuits are suppose to have sufficient drainage in place for safety.

[:) RallyX]

Originally Posted by ebby

Liam's handling of his new Fiesta was shocking also!

Can I just add ebby that Liam had never even sat in the fiesta before race day!
The car had to have alot of adjustments and Liam was also disappointed as he knows and majority of other people know that Liam himself is a fantastic driver.
What actually happened is that the alternator appeared to be damaged (basically it was knackered) so it was causing the car to boost upto 2.5 bar! we didnt realise this until after heat 3 when we downloaded the data onto teh laptop, hence why the car when Liam accelated was uncontrolable.
There was also changes to the suspension throughout the day becuase it was too soft on the back end to start with.
The car will be taken for testing between now and pembrey and will be ready for round 4.

[BertMk2]

It certainly looked to be a car problem rather than a driver problem - it looked horrible under acceleration, the setup was nowhere near right (as I'm sure you're well aware!). The conditions in the afternoon can't have helped either A thorough test can't come soon enough for that car (it certainly looked the part as far as the bodywork and paint scheme go - just needs tweaking now).

Mike Howlins new car also appeared somewhat wayward at the start of the day although that did appear to progress in the handling department (until the deluge!).

Why didn't Pat come out for the supercar 'A' final?

Also good to see George Tracey out to play even though the 307 was absent - 6R4 is still the best sounding car out there (although Birds Clio sounds great as well).

[:) RallyX]

[QUOTE=BertMk2]It certainly looked to be a car problem rather than a driver problem - it looked horrible under acceleration, the setup was nowhere near right (as I'm sure you're well aware!). The conditions in the afternoon can't have helped either A thorough test can't come soon enough for that car (it certainly looked the part as far as the bodywork and paint scheme go - just needs tweaking now).

Why didn't Pat come out for the supercar 'A' final?

QUOTE]

Yep thats exactly how it is Bert, but we will be undergoing some testing shortly.

Pat has an engine problem which meant that he was not ready in time for the grid line up in the A final.

[Paul.GT]

6R4 must be the best sounding car ever,thanks george for making my day and coming out to play with it.

[:) RallyX]

[QUOTE= RallyX]
What actually happened is that the alternaterQUOTE]

I meant actuator not alternator ..

[Queen]

I wish to thank one and all for their hard work. I know I had to borrow dry clothes to come home in.

[Thundersports]

The right decision was made...........
I'd also like to thank George Tracy for bringing his 6R4 made my day to!

[silver bullet]

From reading through the posts in this thread it seems clear that some drivers would have been happy to continue racing, and others thought the conditions were too bad. Equally some spectators wanted racing to continue while others thought the only sensible thing to do was abandon the meeting.

Obviously it was a tough call for the CoC to abandon the meeting. I am sure he would have wanted racing to continue. The main thing on his mind would be safety, not only for the competitors and the marshals, but also the spectators. If he had even the slightest doubt that anyone's safety might be compromised the only decision he could make was abandonment. I am sure he realised the disappointment this would cause, but from what I have heard about the conditions he had no option.

OK, I know rallycross was a winter sport, and we can all remember the mud plugging that used to go on, but that was then, this is now, things change. Look at the WRC events, how they used to be, and what they are now. Look at the fuss Mr Wilson made, just because (shock, horror) the rally GB want to do some night stages.
We have moved on from the days when you sometimes could not see what colour a rallycross car was for the 2'' of mud caked all over it.

Also the CoC has to think of the circuit. Just think of the fuss everyone would have kicked up, if when the BRxC returns to Lydden, the circuit was all rough and rutted, and the base had been destroyed, because races had been run on a waterlogged track.

Originally Posted by rxie

The flip side of the argument is that licenced circuits are suppose to have sufficient drainage in place for safety.

This may be the case, but under extreme conditions even the best prepared tracks can sometimes be caught out.
I remember a couple of years ago Croft having to cancel a meeting, due to a waterlogged track, after several days of torrential rain.