Massa: The second coming? Me thinks not....

[Wrex]

As usual at the start of a new season, we have a few promising rookies making there debutes, and one usually gets alot more attention than the others.

We here labels thrown around like "the next big thing", "the next senna", "Schumachers successor" and other hilarious titles. Montoya got them last year, Button the year before, and if I remember correctly, Johnny Herbert even got a few.

More often than not, this leads to disappointment. It's rarely the drivers fault though, as god himself could'nt live up to the hype. JPM is a good example, fantastic rookie year, but miles from some of the promises made by members at this forum and some headline grabbers in the media.

And that brings us to 2002. I've heard some great stuff about Massa. I was paying attention because until Feb this year, I'd never heard of him. Who was this guy? Where did he come from? Why does everyone think he's so good?

If I had the time I would dig up the old threads. "Massa to replace Rubins as TGF's apprentice and successor", "The next Senna" and so on and so on.

So where is this incredible talent? Monaco was a disaster for him, that move on Bernoldi was, how does Ron put it? "Brain Fade".

Even deleting this as one bad race (and lets face it that happens to the best if them), I still have'nt seen anything special yet. He has'nt really lived up to Kimi (who did'nt really blow me away either) and Nick has outclassed him more often than not, and in Brazil had naughty little Webber take him out in a Minardi during a botched pass (hang on, why was a Minardi passing a Sauber again?).

So please enlighten me, as I may have missed it (very possible after falling asleep in some races).



BTW, I was very pleased to see him walk away after that big crash

[steve_r]

People are always going to hype up a new driver that puts in a reasonable turn of speed, or gets a couple of good results. You have a good point, we should not always belive the hype, but should wait and see. Lets not be too critical though. Kimi and Jensen are both turning out to be good drivers.
Remember all the hype about Damon Hill in his first season with Williams. He did live up to it eventually, winning 3 races in a row mid season, but for every Damon Hill there is a number of Jan Magnusen's (err how do you spell that?)

[f1manoz]

I haven't believed the hype of Massa for an instant, so there!

I want to see clean, hard results before I leap on any bandwagon.

[Bononi]

Originally posted by steve_r

Remember all the hype about Damon Hill in his first season with Williams. He did live up to it eventually, winning 3 races in a row mid season, but for every Damon Hill there is a number of Jan Magnusen's (err how do you spell that?)

Jan who ?

[freud]

Being the largest country of South America and with such sporting passion and heritage, Brazil will always have a lot of talent to produce top notch formula f1 drivers. However, I have criticism of the so called 'The Senna Syndrome' that the Brazilians have pushed themselves into. Every new Brazilian driver who gives a few fast laps in f3 or f3000 is given the label 'Next Senna'. I have seen that with countless number of drivers and now Mr. Massa arrives with the label of 'Next Senna'. I feel that the label of 'Next Senna' has been counter-productive for Massa as he clearly seems to be under pressure. He over-drove in qualifying sessions, races and has been dominated by Heidfeld.

I wont even call' Juan Pablo Montoya' the next Senna though JPM is the best driver to hit f1 in a decade. And and as far as Massa is concerned, he just have the right sponsorship package and hence he's driving a f1 car.

[Bononi]

That's one thing, I never heard about. "The next Senna" is invented by the international press each time a brazilian lands at F1. The only guys who were expected to continue the brazilian dominance, were RB and Christian Fittipaldi. More to the impact of the tragedy than to their real talents.
Massa was hyped by the italian press, and even the brazilian press just took notice of him after he was invited to make a teste drive for Sauber.

[freud]

Correct. And the criticism goes to International press too. F1 Racing and Autosport are keen to stamp label of 'Next Senna' on every second driver coming out of South America putting excessive pressure on these guys trying to make a career in racing. To be honest, I dont think shoes of Senna will ever be filled by anyone else.

[Bibendum]

Well, Massa did put a super move on (I think) Trulli at Imola, down in the first part of that squarish double-apex left-hander before the run down to the chicane that starts the pit straight. I think it's too early to tell, basically; he obviously has talent; whether he'll make much of it is an open question.

[mac]

Originally posted by Bibendum
Well, Massa did put a super move on (I think) Trulli at Imola, down in the first part of that squarish double-apex left-hander before the run down to the chicane that starts the pit straight. I think it's too early to tell, basically; he obviously has talent; whether he'll make much of it is an open question.

Sato nad Webber have also made some super moves this year.

Two examples were Sato on Salo at Monaco and Webber on De La Rosa at Imola.

I'm with you Wrex.

[Jukebox]

Kimi too made mistakes last year, remembered when the safety car was out and left the track..he sped but failed to realise that the car infront controls the momentum and kimi ended up in the grass in a last minute attempt to avoid a car infront.

Monaco is a very difficult track, even Rubens fumbled. So for rookies to make mistakes there isn't such a big deal.

[Glen]

From PlanetF1...
Felipe Massa, Sauber, Retired

Felipe managed to annoy at least 50% of the grid this weekend. He was described by one team member in an off-the-record comment as "that little jerk". Except we've had to insert the word 'jerk' for what was a much stronger term.

The 'Massa versus Bernoldi' battle made for fantastic television, but it also showed the global audience quite clearly that Felipe was prepared to block the Arrows at 150mph as the cars climbed the hill towards Massanet.

And it's difficult enough making a clean pass into Ste. Devote if you're Michael Schumacher, but after Enrique Bernoldi got past him he duly punted the Arrows driver beyond his braking point. It may have been a slight braking problem for the Sauber driver, because Felipe went off there unaided later on, but overall it was wild driving from the youngest man in the race.

Charlie Whiting may well be having a quiet word after the race. Certainly Peter Sauber will take him aside

[Wrex]

Originally posted by Jukebox
Kimi too made mistakes last year, remembered when the safety car was out and left the track..he sped but failed to realise that the car infront controls the momentum and kimi ended up in the grass in a last minute attempt to avoid a car infront.

Kimi was a little different though. He was expected to do badly, and suprised everyone with how well he went. The the hype came to him. Massa had it before the Sauber had been launched.

Originally posted by Jukebox
Monaco is a very difficult track, even Rubens fumbled. So for rookies to make mistakes there isn't such a big deal.

Well, i've never thought much of Rubins anyway, and your right, rookies can have difficulties, as did Monty last year. This was'nt a Monoco rookie mistake with Bernoldi, just a regular run of the mill (not the next great) rookie mistake.

[Miss Hardt]

I didn't think he's going to be something special when I saw him the first time.F1 tends to be something like The Popstars and it's really annoying...no,I am not telling that he's not good...but that's just an average rookie.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Jukebox
Kimi too made mistakes last year, remembered when the safety car was out and left the track..he sped but failed to realise that the car infront controls the momentum and kimi ended up in the grass in a last minute attempt to avoid a car infront.

Monaco is a very difficult track, even Rubens fumbled. So for rookies to make mistakes there isn't such a big deal.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Button at Monza 2000?

[mac]

Yeah, I thought that too Raven.

[Jukebox]

Hmm...button was the one, i might be wrong thanks for the correction. Well the point is rookies do tend to make mistakes and Button was the hype for the year 2000.

[freud]

a very interesting point of view from Nicholaswhite(this is from another thread)...

Originally posted by nicholaswhite
Webber's done a bloody good job, but at this stage I'm going for Massa, I think he's been a lot closer to Heidfeld than Raikkonen was last year (I'm not sure though) and I think he's outqualifying him more often as well.

[Wrex]

Actually Nick has out qualified Massa in every race this year except Monaco and Melbourne (both with extenuating circumstances) and on some occassions, by a large margin.

[f1manoz]

Nick out-performed Kimi last year as well, but who got the McLaren drive!!!!

Knowing Nick's luck, Massa will end up at a better ride first. He was being touted a Ferrari driver up until Rubens signed his extension.

[Mini Me.]

ok WREX,yeah mayb he had a bad couple of races but hes in my opinion "bloody" good!!, answering ur question "wheres he come from"?? well if u bothered to read autosport and just generally took note of these drivers then you would no he graduated from formula Renault eurocup(winning 6races out of 10) and taking the title!!then a move to Euro/italian F3000 where he also i think went on to win before getting hes undue call up from sauber boss Peter Sauber!!!!!!.

[Mini Me.]

wrex again, your quote of Heidfelds outqualified massa on all but 2 occasions is quite true but, lets not forget who the rookie is!!??,nicks 2 previous years of f1 leave him in good stead against such a rookie!, especially around the tight and twisty streets of Monaco!!,so in my opinion then for massa to outqualify this "legend" around monaco with no previous knolledge is pretty good!!

My second point is that even tough massa is a rookie and of course lets not be naive he has alot to live up to!, now ask your self this?? who has more to prove this year out of the 2 sauber drivers!?? is it the young massa or the experienced heidfeld?? my moneys on heidfeld, for the reason is that hes ****ed off about loosing the possible Mclaren drive to his young inexperienced sauber team mate of KIMI RAIKKONEN!. and also being overlooked as the new Mclaren number 1 after Coulthard??

[Mini Me.]

RAVEN:

[Mini Me.]

Raven: mini me has just started in this forum and already i see the innevitable happening!! mistakes!!, mmmmmeee lets ponder this one!!??,kimi made that mistake at monza!!!! ur exact words being "sped off the track,failing to realise that the car infront controls the momentum!!" this is true, now dont you think that kimi knows this?(afterall in the lower formulas this is happening the whole time so it gives the drivers the chance to react and time them to perfection!) some excellantly timed restarts at the start of the British formula renault championship (as witnessed on numerous occasions) means that i dont think he is a novice or just that he is not very good!! its just that he was caught out that day! you probably dont realise this but the pack is dictated by the leader!!so when it comes to the restart it makes it difficult to react at the same time to the car infront!!. so if "cheating dirty crout michael Schumacher" is controlling the filed u can bet ur life that he is trying to out fumble the car behind! stop start, accellerate brake, thats all it need to leave the bloke in the middle with no where to go!! and also remeber its a split second thing!!! suddenly they go but you dont expect them to suddenly brake a typical schumacher thing to do!!!!! thank you and good bye!! write back and challenge me!!!!!!

[Raven]

Welcome to the forum Mini me,

But it really was Jenson Button who made that mistake at Monza 2 years ago. I don't remember there being a safety car at Monza last year but Kimi drove a pretty good race to finish 7th.

[Liz]

I think the magazines and newspapers hype anybody who looks as if he knows which end of a stick to shoot with, in the desperate hope that somebody will inject some competition in to the series.

And as for someone in the pitlane referring to Massa by an opprobrious epithet, I daresay that goes on about every five minutes about somebody or other during the entire race. Wouldn't surprise me if some people even used that term about Senna at some time or other. Some people even that were not named Prost.